Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Breeding => Topic started by: jerryse on March 23, 2012, 06:00:06 AM
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I would like to start a sharing of information off of the forum. Serious breeders only. Send your email address to jerrysegler@yahoo .com. Lets give this the serious effert it deserves. Theories are fine. Results are better information.If there is a way to put slate legs on these varaties we should find it. The standard says nothing about which skin layer should be used to produce slate. No new varaties have been added to the standard since 1984. 28 years. If we have not got the existing 8 color varaties to a acceptable level or popularity in that time maybe it will not happen.
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Count me in ;)
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Good luck...
I do like hearing about them on the forum and I appreciate the naysaying. It gives me information that I will consider, evaluate, and work on.
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Lyne, good to have your input. How about a progress report on those black golds (and blue golds)? Got any recent photos.
I have not hatched any yet this spring, but I do have fertile eggs in the incubator, bantams only.
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This will be my last post on this subject. Let me start by apologising for my lack of tact. I got straight to the point and said what I felt. No apology for that. I am on high doses of predisone now and there have been some personality changes due to this med.
We have banded together to share information on a project that no one else will attempt. Many say it can\'t be done. I have seen 2 minor miracles in the past year. Slate legs on lavender cuckoo and slate legs on a smokey dominate white showing baring. This gives me hope that other genetic exceptions are out there. I see...those of us willing to take on a huge challenge, time and expense to achieve our goal of finding out if this is possible. If we only accept slate legs and only visually then it applies to all varieties. No exceptions. If there is even one exception then any variety should get the same break. This equals a level playing field in my mind. If chocolate is given a break because the epidermis is slate and only appears chocolate because of what the chocolate gene does then cuckoo and mottled deserve the same break because the epidermis is slate and the barring and mottle gene make it appear broken or spotted. I do respect my fellow breeders...So this is plan A.
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Jerry- if you have Cindy\'s contact info maybe you could email it to me. I can\'t find her anywhere- or maybe she will see this.....
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jerryse,
I will email you. I have Mottled birds in Black and Blue.
Clare
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jerryse,
I will email you. I have Mottled birds in Black and Blue.
Clare
You\'re killing me! I have to get some of your black mottleds.
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Plan A is to leave no stone unturned in my search for a genetic solution. I now have serious breeders with me who wish to find a genetic solution.
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Jerry,
I wish you success, but will not be personally participating because of other priorities. Here is one acid test to make sure you are getting what you want with regard to shank coloring, and I offer it here in hopes of helping you succeed in your long term goals. At the Classroom at the Coop genetics forum, they are now calling it the \"Bushman method,\" yours truly being the aforementioned Bushman on that forum. Slate legs must have dark dermis. The epidermis may be yellow, transluscent white(required for slate), or it can be affected by the color of the feathers. So E, E^R, and e^g, can affect feather color and also the epidermis, since the feathers are an extension of the epidermis. That is why I compromised and voted for the change when the others wanted to allow black legs on the darker feathered varieties. But Ameraucanas must have a dark dermis (the under layer of skin on the shank). The so called \"Bushman method\" is simple, and I know you will have no trouble applying it. When you post a chicken, cut away the leg at the junction or the joint where the feathers begin, and peel away the outer layer of skin on the shank. That is the epidermis. What is left is the dermis. It will be either white or dark gray. Dark gray is necessary to make a slate leg. If your purple polka dotted lavender barred cuckoo bird has a dark dermis, you have achieved your goal. Then, you need to bring them up to show quality, have five other breeders participate for at least five years, and then pay a hefty sum and hold qualifying meets to get them recognized. Good luck!
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Jerry,
On the subject of barred birds, in my personal opinion, when barred birds:
1. are to a point where they breed true to type
2. carry the blue egg gene
3. have good interest in them
4. have had five breeders for five years breed them
5. are being shown regularly
Whether they have slate legs or not; that is when they will be considered by the Board of Directors (in place at that time) as to where to go from there with them.
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And, on the subject of barred birds, in my personal opinion, when barred birds:
1. are to a point where they breed true to type
2. carry the blue egg gene
3. have good interest in them
4. have had five breeders for five years breed them
5. are being shown regularly
Whether they have slate legs or not; that is when they will be considered by the Board of Directors (in place at that time) as to where to go from there with them.
I agree with everything quoted except the \"or not\" part. When we start allowing \"anything goes\" with regard to shank color, I\'m taking the Don Cable route to retirement from the ABC. And I\'m quite sure that will make some folks happy.
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jerryse,
I will email you. I have Mottled birds in Black and Blue.
Clare
You\'re killing me! I have to get some of your black mottleds.
Just building up numbers a bit this year. I will likely split to Black next year. They are better layers than my B/Bs and Lavs (self-blues).
(can\'t spell today)
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jerryse,
I will email you. I have Mottled birds in Black and Blue.
Clare
You\'re killing me! I have to get some of your black mottleds.
Just building up numbers a bit this year. I will likely split to Black next year. They are better layers than my B/Bs and Lavs (self-blues).
(can\'t spell today)
I wonder if you\'ll get the slate legs when you make lav mottled like we are getting with the lav cuckoos. Oooh how fun! I just loved mottled birds.
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And, on the subject of barred birds, in my personal opinion, when barred birds:
1. are to a point where they breed true to type
2. carry the blue egg gene
3. have good interest in them
4. have had five breeders for five years breed them
5. are being shown regularly
Whether they have slate legs or not; that is when they will be considered by the Board of Directors (in place at that time) as to where to go from there with them.
I agree with everything quoted except the \"or not\" part. When we start allowing \"anything goes\" with regard to shank color, I\'m taking the Don Cable route to retirement from the ABC. And I\'m quite sure that will make some folks happy.
I\'m with you Mike. Ditto. I truly do understand the desire to \"create\" new varieties. It is truly exciting. Just seeing the results of a single crossing of my Ameraucanas to make dark olive eggs was fascinating.
But as I\'ve said before, I\'m concerned that so many folks are off trying to come up with the next new variety that the current ones we have approved aren\'t getting the attention they deserve.
I only work with the WBS variety and I can tell you they need a LOT of work. Where are the dedicated and committed folks we need to get these where they need to be? I\'ve heard that the Buffs and others need a lot of work too. And I\'ve yet to see a White, Black, or Blue take Champion of the Show - so that would tell me they need some work as well.
Don\'t get me wrong. I\'m not saying \"If it can\'t be my way, then it\'s the highway.\" I\'m just saying while I enjoy supporting the ABC, if the Club looks like it\'s losing direction and running with \"anything goes\", then I can\'t see being a part of it. I like to know that there is a reasonable amount of organization and consistency in direction to that which I belong.
It seems to me that blue-slate or dark slate legs is a specific characteristic and trait of the Ameraucana. Just like yellow legs is for Barnevelders and there are some involved with creating a new variety of those - but the overall breed characteristics have to remain. IMO.
That\'s my two-cents worth.
God Bless,
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I\'m new, I\'m interested in seeing the progress of folkses project birds and reports on them. I hope to work on the blue lacing project for blue ameraucanas.
It doesn\'t appear that the ABC is running in ten different directions to me. It looks like we have a solid group of poultry fanciers/breeders here that make it a great club.
Some folks have to march to their own tune or their own project and it is interesting seeing the results, successes and failures here, too.
From my short time with chickens, a lot of the accepted breeds need work. I\'m here as long as I can afford the fees, about 3 gallons of gasoline a year.........
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You know- there are some benefits to color projects. I feel that in the process I have made improvements in my lavender/split flock that I otherwise would not have.
My only regret is that I don\'t have enough incubator space.
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And, on the subject of barred birds, in my personal opinion, when barred birds:
1. are to a point where they breed true to type
2. carry the blue egg gene
3. have good interest in them
4. have had five breeders for five years breed them
5. are being shown regularly
Whether they have slate legs or not; that is when they will be considered by the Board of Directors (in place at that time) as to where to go from there with them.
I agree with everything quoted except the \"or not\" part. When we start allowing \"anything goes\" with regard to shank color, I\'m taking the Don Cable route to retirement from the ABC. And I\'m quite sure that will make some folks happy.
null (http://null)
I agree that keeping the slate legs is important to our breed...
I would also HATE to even think about you retiring from the ABC Mike... You are an incredible educator and personally you have been a tremendous resource and inspiration to me....
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jerryse,
I will email you. I have Mottled birds in Black and Blue.
Clare
You\'re killing me! I have to get some of your black mottleds.
Just building up numbers a bit this year. I will likely split to Black next year. They are better layers than my B/Bs and Lavs (self-blues).
(can\'t spell today)
I wonder if you\'ll get the slate legs when you make lav mottled like we are getting with the lav cuckoos. Oooh how fun! I just loved mottled birds.
I have no plans for Lav Mottled, though I have sent eggs to a friend when I had the two colors penned together earlier in the season, and she has hatched a number of chicks split for both Lav and Mo.
I\'m not sure this would create an attractive bird without the contrast.