Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: DeWayne Edgin on April 06, 2013, 11:08:00 PM
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Wanted a White large fowl hen and a big Silver rooster.
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big Silver rooster
I have 3 year old silver cocks that I can sell in a month. "Big" can be a problem. I think all the LF silvers I've ever seen were under standard weight, but think mine are as close to it as anyone's. I'll weigh them when I get a chance.
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Ok great. I am trying to get better size on my Silvers. My hens and rooster are really small. If i have to i will cross them with a Black male with Blue slate legs, but i would like to avoid this if i can.
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John and I have both done this. I think it is the best way to improve the variety. My birds are pretty close to size, but I am still working on color now.
I've had quite a few promising chicks hatch the past month. :D
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How long do you think it would take? Do you think it would take three or four years?
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I would be further along, but I didn't get a good cockerel last year. So I am repeating my third generation breeding this year.
Just continue to keep the larger pullets!!!!
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Ok thanks. My Black rooster with blue slate legs is only giving one fertile egg out of every 9 or 10. I will try him with my biggest Silver hen and go from there.
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By the way Jean. Do you think you will have a White hen for sale any time this year? I may even get more than one if you have them later. Shipping would probably be cheaper that way. I can go to boxes for birds and have a box shipped to your house also. Thanks.
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I've got lots of whites hatching out this year, so that would definately be a possibility.
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Ok great. I would raise day old chicks or older if you want to ship 10 or 15 or so. But it is up to you what you prefer. Thanks.
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i will cross them with a Black male with Blue slate legs
You ultimately want to breed for e+/e+ birds and they will develop slate legs/shanks. I'm not sure why you mention the leg color, but if the thought is that fewer melanizers may be involved than with a black shanked bird it may be a good idea.
i will cross them with a Black male
I have made that cross this year, but normally advise breeders to go the other way and use a silver cock over the largest black hen available. The pullets from that cross will all be pure for "silver" (as opposed to gold) and should then be bred to a silver cock the following year. Cull the cockerels, since they may carry gold. After that generation the offspring can be bred amongst themselves so you don't lose the increase in size that the original cross was intended for.
The reason I used a black cock over a silver hen this time is that the cock is huge and with silvers being so undersized the overcompensation can't hurt. I haven't hatched any from this pair yet this year, but should have a few next week.
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I did both crosses. Black over silver and silver over black.
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Thanks Jean and thanks John. I will try this and see what happens with my Silvers. Jean when you crossed Black and White and kept keeping the Whites to breed, do you still get a lot of Black chicks in later generations? I got eggs from a guy who did this and almost all of the chicks were Black and the ones that were White had Black spots on them. The original Black cross was supposed to have been done before, and the person i got them from said he hardly ever gets any with Black on them.
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I toe punched all the chicks, so that I knew they were carrying white. I crossed a blue cockerel on my white hens. I got blue, black and splash chicks. I only kept a splash and blue pullet.
And yes, this generation I am getting some blue and black chicks. Unless you take the dark bird out of the white pen, you will continue to get b/b/s chicks carrying recessive white out of your white pen.
I don't recommend using white in the b/b/s pen.
What you are referring to doesn't make any sense to me and the whites may have been carrying something weird beneath the white. With recessive white if both parent birds are white all the offspring should be white. The only leakage I have ever seen on a recessive white is a bit of red or some feathers with peppering on them no spots.
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Ok. I had a White hen that had a real bad cross beak and i did not want to breed her. I have two White roosters and no other White hens that i can use. I wanted to make a few White hens and was told to use a Black hen. I was told to keep culling all chicks with Black feathers on and only keep the best Whites. Then i was going to breed them pullets to my other White cock and back and fourth to get my white hens. I got eggs that was out of White hens that were made this way a long time ago and they all had Black on them. Some were fully Black. Will the hens that were made this way always throw back to Black chicks years from now to? Sorry i did not explain better, it is confusing they way i asked you. I can not say the person i got these from was fully honest with me so i thought you could tell me what to expect from doing this cross. Thanks.
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True Ameraucanas that are white are the recessive kind of white. When you have this, white to white will always produce white, although sometimes you get an occasional dark feather or two. Your friend may have mixed in some dominant white from who knows where. Two white birds that each carry only one copy of dominant white will throw about 25% dark birds. Dominant white also does not cover up red feathers, so it is used in making the red pyle color. When you don't know the genetic background of the birds you are working with you can often get unexpected results.
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Thanks Mike. The guy i got these eggs from was the guy you told me about in an email. You may not remember it was earlier this year. I guess i should probably continue to look for a White to buy that was not in a Black cross. I am guessing this means the White birds that had the Black in them will always throw some Black along the way. Black is more dominate than White i think and will always come back from time to time.
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Was that the guy selling eggs on e-bay? As I understand it, the guy selling eggs on e-bay for White Ameraucanas had the remainder of the late Anne Foley's birds. I really don't know what she used to make them. If it was some of Carl Fosbrink's they very well could have had some dominant white in them. But let me repeat: recessive white to recessive white will always throw white. It makes no difference if black was crossed in at some time in the past or not. All white birds have suppressed colors "underneath."
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DeWayne,
I'll see how many whites I have in either this hatch or the next one. I should have some silvers hatching too.
The birds I received from Carl appear to be recessive white, they did carry the barring gene though. I finally bred it out of my birds.
I do get some chicks though that are yellow at hatch and have very light legs. I have toe punched them and the legs darken within a week or so and they appear no different than the other birds in the clutch.
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I do get some chicks though that are yellow at hatch and have very light legs. I have toe punched them and the legs darken within a week or so and they appear no different than the other birds in the clutch.
Those chicks might have one copy of barring, or a copy of wheaten. Both will inhibit dermal melanin, but it eventually comes in. I'm not sure if Dilute (Di) has an effect on demal melanin or not.
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Mike,
I toe punched them to see what they would look like as adults to see if there were any problems with the leg color or leakage.
It could be id gene that dilutes the leg color??? (I think that is what the correct term is.) I am pretty sure I got rid of the barring. The buffs seem to carry the id, and wouldn't barred birds carry this also?
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Those chicks might have one copy of barring, or a copy of wheaten.
Either way I wouldn't breed from them.
Since both buff and wheaten varieties are based on wheaten at the e-locus the shank color should develop the same in both...darken after a few weeks.
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Those chicks might have one copy of barring, or a copy of wheaten.
Either way I wouldn't breed from them.
Since both buff and wheaten varieties are based on wheaten at the e-locus the shank color should develop the same in both...darken after a few weeks.
John,
I do not think it is either. I bred all my whites to a blue cockerel last year and got no barred birds. All offspring were blue, black or splash.
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If it is two copies of id, I will have to see if the toe punch birds are all males.....
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Jean, id is what you want. You don't want Id. Id is dominant over id, so if it were there the birds would not have slate legs at all. So I don't think that is the problem. I noticed the same issue in bantam whites many years ago, and it is still there today in some of the buffs. I would not be surprised if it were Di (dilute) or a similar dominant gene.
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At least they are all toe punched and can be removed.....
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Mike these were eggs from Anne Foleys birds. The guy was selling them on Ebay, which i did not until i called him. He claimed that every once in a while one would come out with a Black feather but these were all Black or mostly Black. I am not keeping them though because who knows what they might be mixed with.
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Jean maybe we could even do a mixture of chicks. If you ship 15 in a box, i would take like 8 Silvers and 7 whites. Or if you ship 20 i would take 10 Whites and 10 Silvers. How ever many you ship for heat just give me half and half. If you can not make as many of one as the other then just send me more of the ones that you can. Eggs are a gamble and i think i am done gambling. Thanks.
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Mike these were eggs from Anne Foleys birds. The guy was selling them on Ebay, which i did not until i called him. He claimed that every once in a while one would come out with a Black feather but these were all Black or mostly Black. I am not keeping them though because who knows what they might be mixed with.
Anne had both whites and blacks, so I'm betting he either sent you some eggs from the blacks, or else a rooster got in the wrong pen for a while. Either way, I would not be afraid to use the chicks that came out white.
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I only got one that was mostly White and it had Black spots all over it. It kinda looks like a splash.
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a big Silver rooster
I did weigh my 3 one year old LF cocks. Two are 4.5 pounds and the other is 4.7. They are a couple pounds under standard weight, but I don't know of anyone that has bigger ones and still be as close to the standard in looks.
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Ok thanks John. Do you think you might have them in a couple more weeks? I would like to see what Jean hatches to avoid lots of shipping charges. If she gets white chicks and Silver chicks, then it would be a lot cheaper to send them in one box to PA. Thanks for your help.
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I won't have any adult birds to sell until May 7th and then I want to sell them fast to make room for the growing chicks.
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Ok great. I will see what happens until then and i will contact you closer to May. Thanks.
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Put the eggs in the hatcher last night. Last weeks chicks were very late. I left them in the incubator longer this time. I think my hatcher is off temperature wise.
If you send me a private message I can keep in contact with you to see if I will be able to send chicks.
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Last weeks chicks were very late
Sometimes it just has to do with the varieties/strains. I hatch 10 varieties of chicks and some hatch at different times. Half or more of the bantam lavenders from coop #1 pipped at 19 days and hatched over the next 12 hours, while last week some bantam buffs from coop #3 weren't pipped until 21 1/2 days.
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Well i have a Blue hen with a Blue rooster. I am trying to get a splash chick. Any way last month i had eggs hatch from my Buffs and my Brown Reds on day 21. I didn't have time to clean my incubator so i left it run. On day 24 i went to clean it and i picked up a Blue egg and it was chirping. I put it back in and it hatched on day 25. Last week i took the left over eggs out to clean my other incubator and was cracking them open to see how long they made it till they died. One of my Blue eggs had a live chick in which died since i opened it. My third incubator was due to hatch last Friday. Nine chicks hatched on Thursday (day 20). I left the eggs run that were left and tonight ( day 23 ) my Blue egg pipped and another is rocking. The Blue hen is only one year old and the Blue rooster is only about 6 months old. Does any one think that maybe these birds are young and that it may be the reason for the chicks developing slow?
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Last weeks chicks were very late
Sometimes it just has to do with the varieties/strains. I hatch 10 varieties of chicks and some hatch at different times. Half or more of the bantam lavenders from coop #1 pipped at 19 days and hatched over the next 12 hours, while last week some bantam buffs from coop #3 weren't pipped until 21 1/2 days.
John,
That was my fifth batch of chicks this year, they all hatch over a 2 day window. I don't generally keep late hatchers, etc because it throws off the next generation. There is definately an issue with my hatcher as I lost lots of my goslings in it last year.
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http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/Dewayne069/media/White%20hen/Picture8461_zps63ef18d5.jpg.html I finally got my White large fowl hen!! But she hasn't laid an egg in three weeks now! O well i will keep waiting on her.
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She looks like a dandy DeWayne. Good shank coloring, good tail, can't see her comb from the side view, all good indications. When birds are moved they frequently stop laying for a time. Let us know how she does for you.
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She started laying seven days ago, and i got six eggs from her! I am incubating them today.The person that i got her from said she was a grand champion hen at a show in California. She is a big hen also and i hope to get lots of chicks from her. I can't remember her exact weight but, i think she was around 9 pounds!!
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If she is actually 9 lbs, she should be disqualified in a show as she is outside the 20% leeway they give for size - if the judges do their job properly, and that is a big if. The limit before a D.Q. for an Ameraucana hen is 6.6 pounds. Nevertheless she should make a good breeder, but I would use a smaller rooster.
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Yea i was just thinking about this and i think the weight was a total of the box she was shipped in and all of its contents to. Sorry about that. I sent you a picture of her standing beside one of my roosters so you can see how she looks beside him.