Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: Guest on August 08, 2007, 07:30:11 PM
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Hi, I\'m new to Ameraucanas and have some 12 week old birds that I\'m trying to figure out.
Specifically, I\'d like to know if pullet behavior is significantly different from cockerels? Do pullets ever face off with cockerels and puff up and spar a bit?
The combs are not developed, but the ones I suspect are cockerels are pinkish and maybe a bit wider. The others are more yellow, but not completely. Are the combs significantly different at this age? They are on my other chickens. Thanks for any help.
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Speed of maturity depends to a great extent on how the birds are raised, as well as genetic factors. You should have no trouble determining males from females by the age of 12 weeks if they receive good care. They also mature more quickly if they have access to the outdoors or grassy runs.
Generally, the males combs will be larger and redder, and the hackle and saddle feathers should be pointed, whereas pullet hackles and feathers in the cushion area at the base of the tail should be rounded. If you need more help, try to post some photos. To answer your other quesion, hens and pullets will spar with each other, and with cockerels until a pecking order is established.
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All my birds have access to the yard for at least a few hours each day. I have two groups of Ameraucanas. One is 12 weeks, the other is 8 weeks.
I\'ll give some example photos of each one.
The first bird is a 12 week old.
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-8.jpg)
Head shot and upper back with wings held open:
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-4.jpg)
Back Shot with wings held open:
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-5.jpg)
Another head shot:
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-6.jpg)
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Bird #2 is an 8 week old that I suspect is a cockerel.
Neck shot:
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-2.jpg)
Bird #3 is from the same hatch that I suspect is a pullet. Notice the comb is more defined on this one, but not as wide and not quite as pink.
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-1.jpg)
This last photo is of all three together. Notice that bird #2 (in the rear), has a different shape head.
(http://www.angelsplus.com/ebay/Ameraucana-3.jpg)
On these birds the camera really didn\'t bring out how pink the combs are. They are distinctly pink. I would appreciate any help in the identification. I\'m only keeping one cockerel, and I\'d like to get rid of the extras as soon as I can.
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Bird one is a cockerel . . . the narrow hackle feathers are in evidence and I wouldn\'t be surprised if bird three is a cockerel. I cannot tell from the picture of bird two.
Michael
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I agree with Michael that the big bird in the first set of photos is definately a cockerel.
I wouldn\'t keep him for breeding if he were mine, but I am \'trying\' to breed show birds or close to it.
The other two need to grow a little more before I would call them. However, I have had birds that I have seperated in breeding/laying pens at 20 weeks only to find out 3-4 weeks later they were late developing cockerels.
Jean
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Bird number one appears to me to have a cushion comb instead of a pea comb. Cushion combs are the result of genes for both pea and rose combs. If this is what it appears the bird is a crossbreed, not an Ameraucana. That would account for the head being shaped differently too. On the younger birds you will just have to be patient if you want to be sure before you start culling. Too early culling is always a temptation, and often results in mistakes.
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Bird number one appears to me to have a cushion comb instead of a pea comb. Cushion combs are the result of genes for both pea and rose combs. If this is what it appears the bird is a crossbreed, not an Ameraucana. That would account for the head being shaped differently too. On the younger birds you will just have to be patient if you want to be sure before you start culling. Too early culling is always a temptation, and often results in mistakes.
The combs had me confused. The photos I\'ve seen of Ameraucanas haven\'t shown any like these. Bird #1 and bird #2 appear to have the same comb. Bird #3 has the small comb protrusions starting to develop. When I got these, I was under the impression that they were from show stock, but I may have been mistaken. Not that I care that much, but I\'ve always tended to enjoy working with purebred animals.
Thanks for all the help.
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I wouldn\'t keep him for breeding if he were mine, but I am \'trying\' to breed show birds or close to it.
Jean
Jean, I\'m interested in learning what makes a show quality Ameraucana. Can you tell me what traits are not quite right on the #1 bird? Thanks,
Steve
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Since I took them, I thought I\'d add a few more photos of the young birds.
This is bird #3 at a different angle.
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Bird #2:
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Bird #2
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Last one of #2
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Steve,
The first challenge is type and I will save time and refer you to the following link on this site:
standard (http://www.ameraucana.org/standard.html)
The following link is to the set of 2006 National meet Best of Variety and Reserve of Variety:
2006 National (http://www.ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=430)
The comb is an issue, but not the first thing I would check for. I would also check foot pads to make sure they are not yellow along with the skin color which should be white. If the cockerel continues with correct type the comb could be corrected with hens of very correct comb. Sometimes you have to work with what you have and breed toward the standard description of color and type. I know Vicky advertised some blue cockerels which could be used if you have pullets that are okay.
Michael
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The following is a link to the 2005 National Best of Variety and Reserve of Variety:
2005 National Meet (http://groups.msn.com/ABCShareingPlace/inthenews.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=5015&LastModified=4675544779565179532&all_topics=1)
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I think most everyone on the board is trying to breed show quality or close to it birds. Some are working on new colors, but the end goal will be to get as close to the Standard of Perfection as possible.
When I looked at your bird, the comb was not the first thing that stood out, it was the shape of the head. Then the comb and then the color of his eyes.
I have only been at this for three years, so I am by no means an expert. The pictures of the birds on the referenced links really help to get an idea of what you are looking for.
Jean
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I did read the standard before, but many of the terms are too vague for me, as a beginner, to know what to look for. Many traits are described with adjectives like \"moderate\", \"medium\", \"expressive\", \"small\", \"full\", etc. These leave an awful large amount of interpretation, especially for someone with little experience.
I have also seen the National meet photos before, but to the untrained eye, it is not easy to see why one is good compared to another.
Mine have no yellow on the legs. They do have white skin. That stuff is easy to see. However, whether it\'s neck is properly arched or if the eyes are expressive, is beyond me at this point. Jean mentions that the color of it\'s eyes is not right, but I can\'t even find that in the standard. I would also guess that it\'s difficult to evaluate a 12 week old bird to the standard, which I\'m guessing is for adults. Very confusing right now...
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but I can\'t even find that in the standard
Steve,
FYI, the \"Standard\" on the ABC website is only a description of the breeds and not the varieties, so colors aren\'t mentioned. Even the description we have is not complete for the breeds, since the Standards are copyrighted by the APA. We were able to work with them to include on our site what we have and encourage those that want complete breed and variety descriptions to buy a \"Standard\" from the APA.
I know from your website that you don\'t live anywhere close to Montana, but going to an ABC National meet with a camera is a great way to learn. I know you have a \"fishy\" background when it comes to breeding and think you could be real asset to the poultry fancy. If possible drive over to the Fowl Fest in Frankenmuth, MI this October. http://FowlFest.org
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Thanks for the info John. I\'ll have to wait until there is a National show closer before I can go. In the meantime, if I get more serious in breeding for show, I\'ll purchase the Standard you referred to.
I initially obtained the Ameraucanas because I wanted the eggs and they were reputed to be a very cold hardy variety. I\'ve worked most of my life with improving animals and will probably find it difficult to not work with these.
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Steve,
Very cool website! I love guppies and angelfish! That being said, John covered most of which I was going to yesterday, but didn\'t. You might watch our meet list and try to attend a meet closer to home.
http://www.ameraucana.org/ABC%20Meets.html
Comb type is fairly easy to correct. I was relieved that you had white skin. You are looking to hit a reddish bay color for the eyes. I would not doubt that your birds came from show stock. One of the common misconceptions is that a bird that shows well is a good breeding bird. I have taken birds that showed well put them together and ended up with offspring that were much less than the parent birds. This is normal in nature . . . characteristics tend to move toward a \"normal\" curve . . . so the exceptional really is exceptional and one must breed the entire group toward the exceptional over time in order to improve the entire group . . . but you know this! I tend to now try to buy stock in family units and I tend to personally use flock mating methods in order to bring the entire group along instead of only segments.
I would suggest that your birds are too young to truly assess and I would suggest letting them grow awhile before making any decisions. In the meantime you might look around for more stock.
A couple of pictures that I have used in the bulletin that Mike Gilbert sent to me. These pictures are large enough for you to get an idea of the type you are looking for.
White Large Fowl
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/259623/whitelargefowl.jpg)
Blue Large Fowl
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/259623/BlueLargeFowl.jpg)