Black Silver

[John]

Johhny Parks, from GA, sent an email to me today with some photos.  Here is some of what he had to say:

I finally did take a few pictures of some of my birds.  The two pictures of the hen is of the same female bird.  I tried to get different views to allow you to see her wonderful lacing.  She is a half Black Gold and half Birchen bantam.  She is a really pretty bird who has wonderful silver coloring and lacing.  I have two hens that are exactly alike.  I call them my twin girls.  They are gorgeous.  The rooster is my Old Birchen rooster.  He is the father of the two hens.  I crossed him with a couple of Black-Gold hens that I purchased from fellow ABC member, Wayne Gritter.  The Birchen rooster is close to ten years old!  He is a really pretty bird also.  These pictures do not do these birds justice.  It is very hard to take a good picture of a chicken. ha,ha.

[Guest]

Thanks, now I have a much better idea of what BG should look like.

[John]

I am not going to continue with the black gold project, but have kept two pullets that I hatched this year.  One of them appears to have good lacing and shafting without stippling.  I\'ll offer her to the members that are coming to the National meet.
Comments?

[Mike Gilbert]

Coloring looks good, especially on the front of the breast where it sometimes gets smutty.

[bantamhill]

Has anyone working on Black Gold seen a need for male and female pens? I am experiencing results that lead me to think that I may need to run seperate cockerel and pullet pens if I continue with black gold.

I think Johnny\'s birds look alot like the silver penciled rocks I have here!

Michael

[Mike Gilbert]

Michael, you may be correct as I have had mixed results also.
But I have not tried seperate male and female pens - and probably won\'t due to space limitations.   Johnny Parks silver version is similar, but should not have the stippling so it needs a lot of work too.

[Johnny Parks]

I am glad that John and Mike have drawn my attention to the stippling issue.  I am monitoring the younger birds growing  this summer. A few seem to have less stippling, blacker feathers, good shafting and silver lacing.  Those I will keep.  Thanks guys for your help.  I will keep you informed. Johnny

[John]

I will show the black gold pullet, in the above photos, at the National meet and also donate her to the club\'s silent auction.   This way she will go to a breeder that is working on developing this new variety and make a few bucks for the club.

[Mike Gilbert]

Good plan, John.   She looks like something I might be able to use, but have to go through my own pullets first, so I\'ll wait until the national meet to get a good look.

[Johnny Parks]

I have two birds with good potential.  They have good lacing on a darker feather with less stippling, good shafting, slate shanks, comb, etc.  The rooster hatched from a pullet egg and is going to be true bantam.  The only concern that I have is about the rooster having \"no\" beard!  I have only had three beardless birds in the ten years that I have been breeding Ameraucana.  I always rid them from my flock.  I am enjoying reading on this website about poultry genetics, even still, I only understand about a thimble full on genetics.  How serious is this going to be if I keep this rooster to breed in my black silver project?  I don\'t want to rid myself of this bird if all of his other qualities are correct, unless I should.  I don\'t want to breed him and be plagued with beardless birds either.  Should I get rid of him or should I cross him back over a heavily bearded birchen hen?  What will help?  Thank you.  Johnny

[Mike Gilbert]

If he is the best you have color-wise, I would use him.   Some of the offspring may be beardless - you can pick those out and cull them when they hatch.   The bearded ones will carry one gene for muffs & beards, and another gene for being clean faced.   If you mate pullets and cockerels from that generation together, 25 % will be clean faced, 50% half like their parents, and 25 % fully muffed & bearded.   You may be able to pick the latter 25% out from the others by the larger size of the muffs.   Good luck!

[Johnny Parks]

Thanks Mike!  I will try this.  Johnny

[Mike Gilbert]

They look pretty nice from the pictures, Johnny.   Do they have the shafting as well as the lacing?   These don\'t look nearly  as smutty in the black sections  as the original female.  You have me thinking about a mating for next year that would give me some of these to work on too.  What about the birchens?   Are you still working on them as well?

[Guest]

The black silvers at the beginning of this thread; I have seen the same color in other birds. European birds I believe are called mossy gray. Makes for a handsome bird.

I have never worked with birds that have the coloration of the black gold or black silver.  Is the idea to produce a bird that has black feathers with gold or silver shafting and with a gold or silver lace.  


I do not know of any research that deals with the coloration.  I imagine a birchen with the pattern gene (Pg) , and the correct melanizer would get what you want. The brown gene or eb would work also. Melanotic or charcoal would not work as a melanizer because they add too much black to the hackles and would cover the silver lace.

There are other melanizers floating around that are undocumented. I am trying to isolate one using red jungle fowl.  This melanizer makes the back totally black in the male birds and extends black into the hackles and saddle. Not sure how it effects females at this time. I do not even know if it would work on birchen. I know it works on wild type. I think I am just rambling on.

Tim

[Mike Gilbert]

Tim,
Yes, these birds are based on the birchen genes that give the very thin lacing on the breast.   This lacing is not based on Pg I am told, it only requires E>R at the e locus.  Then there are unknown modifiers that extend the lacing over the entire bird (at least in the females), and then we add extensive shafting to give the birds even more color/contrast.   The challenges are to produce birds that have the thin lacing and shafting over the entire body instead of just the breast or front part of the bird.   Add another challenge to get the black areas free of white (or gold) smut.   So the black portions of the feathers are clear black - or as much so as possible.   The picture of the black gold pullet John put up earlier on this thread is a real good example of what we are trying to achieve.   Unfortunately that bird was lost, and John decided to abandon the project.   I have birds that are close, but none as good as that picture - yet.