Culling Choices

[Tailfeathers]

Hi Y\'all,

Looking for some help.  I\'m eyeballing my males pretty good now and looking to see who I\'ll keep and who\'ll go in the freezer.  I did a search for \"red+tails\" and found one comment where John says he thinks red in the tails may of males be a problem.  

So, with that being said, I\'ve noticed a couple of my males have quite a lot of red in the tails.  I have to go look at them again but I think it\'s more predominant with the Wheatens than the Blue Wheatens.  I am assuming that it makes no difference between a W or BW?  Is that true?  I don\'t want any red in either?  And along those lines, how much is too much?

Also, I have one SW out of all my chicks I kept.  He\'s a nice looking bird but I\'ve noticed some red lacing around the edges of his breast feathers.  Jean told me to watch out for that and said it contributes to something but I can\'t remember what.  I\'m gonna go back and see if I kept that email but in case I don\'t find it, I\'d appreciate it Jean (or anyone else) if you could address that again here.  And again, how much is too much?

Lastly, I am still having a dickens of a time with most of my females laying.  I\'ve got my two #10\'s that lay every other day like clockwork but, of course, they lay the lightest egg.  I think I made some improvements with egg color from some of my matings last year but I don\'t think I\'m seeing any improvement in production levels.  I\'ve even got one bird I think molting now that I just put in a pen two weeks ago. I also think I made some improvements with wing & tail color on some females.  

So my last question is how many things can I expect to improve on at one time?  Should I just forget about trying to get some nice SQ looking birds and focus on egg color and production until I get that right and then go back to working on type, coloration, etc?  This WBS variety is driving me nuts!

God Bless,

[bryngyld]

I don\'t know about wheaten color, but I think I remember a thread on how the hens who have been laying a lot have lighter and lighter eggs as the season goes on.  There was also a recommendation for feed, to supply them with what was missing - was it copper?

Now that John is back, maybe he can lead you to the thread...

[Mike Gilbert]

I don\'t know about wheaten color, but I think I remember a thread on how the hens who have been laying a lot have lighter and lighter eggs as the season goes on.  There was also a recommendation for feed, to supply them with what was missing - was it copper?

Right on both counts Lyne.  The copper thing is just a theory someone on another forum brought up, so is unproven as far as I know.   But anyone who has seen a solution of copper sulfate would know why the theory might hold water.   Royce, I wouldn\'t forget about producing the right color, but I am at the point where I believe type and production should have first priority.   The Standard is full of \"pretty\" birds that are seldom seen.   I would venture to say the reasons are a combination of poor (wild) temperament, below average production of meat and eggs, and bred-in susceptibility to various poultry diseases.   All these faults can be improved through careful selection and maintaining a large gene pool.  The old timers (and I\'m getting to be one of those) used to say, \"you have to build the barn before you paint it.\"  

[John]

he thinks red in the tails may of males be a problem

Here again it is just a thought, but I assume to produce females with the blackest tails we would select for males with the blackest tails.  Often they are edged with red and may coincide with the black breast feathers edged/laced with red.  I\'ll try to find a photo...it seems like I posted one before on this subject.

[John]

Here is a link to the topic I mentioned, from a year ago:
http://ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=1008
And here is a photo Jean had a link to.  It shows the red edging/lacing on the black tail feathers that I was referring to.

[Tailfeathers]

Thanks to everyone!  

John, the picture is exactly what I\'m seeing in a lot of my cockerels.  In fact, there is even more red on a couple of them than is shown in Jean\'s picture.  

I don\'t know that I have seen the red lacing in the breast feathers of the males but I will have to look specifically for that this weekend.  There is just SO MUCH too look for.  Obviously by now many of you are realizing I\'m not very adept at multi-tasking or capable of handling a lot of details at the same time.  Working on it though!   :rolleyes:

Mike, thanks for your input.  That helps a lot too.  

As an on the side \"Oh btw...\", I just got a new egg from one of my pullets.  Ugh!  It\'s a drab green - which means one of my roosters must be carrying some brown color genes.  Now I just gotta catch her laying so I can see what # she is and trace her parents back.

That will narrow down one cull for sure.

God Bless,

[cedarpondfarm]

Mike I think you are right about type and productivity.  My question is this.  I have looked at many new and old photos of show winners on this forum.  They don\'t seem to have the same general shape or carriage as those in the standard.  Even among the winners there are differences in overall type (not talking about combs, eyes, or color patterns).  Can someone submit pictures of side profiles of \"perfect\" type in large fowl rooster and hen?    

[Mike Gilbert]

Good photos are really difficult to come by.   For my money, go to the Photos Link and take a look at the Black large fowl male.  Picture him with a small, neat comb.   Everything else is really good, except I would like to see a little more leg under him.    For a female, go to the Download Link, and open the ABC Informatinal Flyer.   Take a look at the Brown Red pullet.   She could be standing a little better, tail a little lower, but she is everything I am looking for in female type.
BTW, the buff bantam male just above her in the Flyer is of really good type as well.   These are probably prejudiced opinions, and others may have their own, but this is what I strive for in Ameraucana type.

[John]

Even among the winners there are differences in overall type

I agree and that is why Mike says to build the barn before painting it.  In LF I think the silver and wheaten varieties are lacking the most when it comes to Ameraucana \"type\".  I and others have breeding programs in place to try to improve them.