Author Topic: Breeding blues and blue wheaten  (Read 24677 times)

Paul

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« on: December 27, 2005, 07:51:40 PM »
  Each year we get chick orders for all blue wheatens and all blues.  A poultry fancier needs to know that mating blue to blue will produce blue, black and splash chicks.  Fifty % blue, 25% black and 25% splash on the average will be produced.  A splash is actually a pure blue, carrying only blue genes.  A splash is a yellowish-white chick at hatching and will develop white feathers with blue and/or black speckles or spots.  Presently there is an agreement with several ABC members, to help get splash a recognized variety in the Ameraucana breed. 
  Splash is a good source to produce some very good blues.  Splash mated to splash produces only splash, because splash is pure.  Splash mated to black produces only blue, because the black parent is only carrying black genes and the splash parent carrying blue genes.  This creates an offspring with both blue and black genes, which makes a blue chick.  Many of our best blues have been produced from a splash and black mating.  They are not sex-linked genes, so it doesn\'t matter whether the male or female is splash.  Our best blue cockerel from the 2005 hatch is out of a splash pullet which Matthew calls \"Spotie\".  Some of the best blue pullets from the 2005 hatch are out of a splash cockerel.  Splash mated to blue will produce 50% splash and 50% blue chicks on the average, because the blue parent is carrying both blue and black genes and the splash carrying only blue genes.  When the blue parent donates a blue gene to the blue gene donated from the splash parent, a splash chick is hatched.  When the blue parent donates a black gene to the blue gene donated from the splash parent a blue chick is hatched.
  The most used way to produce blue chicks is from a blue to black mating which results in 50% blue and 50% black chicks on the average.  We have used every combination mentioned above to produce our blues, except blue to splash.  The 2006 hatching will have some chicks from blue wheatens mated to splash wheatens.
  Wheatens, blue wheatens and splash wheatens will produce the same results as blacks, blues and splash.  Wheaten takes the place of blacks.  Blue wheaten takes blues place and splash wheaten replaces splash.  The problem with wheatens is they are all the same color at hatching.  Blues, blacks and splashes are easily recognizable at hatching by the different color of their down.  The wheaten, blue wheaten and splash wheaten have to start developing some feathers before they can be identified by a variety.  This makes it difficult to sell only blue wheaten or only wheaten chicks if the different breeding combination are used which produce more than one variety of wheatens.  Presently we have wheaten to wheaten; wheaten to blue wheaten; blue wheaten to wheaten; blue wheaten to blue wheaten; blue wheaten to splash wheaten; splash wheaten to blue wheaten and splash wheaten to wheaten combinations in our breeding pens.
  A conclusion, after having bred Ameraucanas for seven years, is \"If you want to raise good blues, then you are going to have to raise blacks also!\"  The same thing applies to blue wheatens and wheatens.
  Hope this helps those desiring to raise blue and blue wheatens.
  Presently we are booking our 2006 hatch chicks.  We offer potential show quality day old, large fowl Ameraucana chicks in black, blue, splash, wheaten, blue wheaten, splash wheaten and buff.  The first hatch will be Jan. 23, then one every two weeks until May 16.  E-mail us at psmith@ntin.net for more information.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:15:18 PM by paul »
Paul Smith

John

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2005, 09:09:53 AM »
One of the reasons I\'m working to develop lavender Ameraucanas is because blues don\'t breed true.  I may stop breeding blues once the lavender is accepted.  The same could be done with a lavender wheaten.  Lavender has some feather quality problems associated with it, but it is a very nice color similar to blue but without lacing.

Mike Gilbert

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2005, 08:50:08 PM »
The addition of the dominant BL gene also can cause some deterioration of feather quality.   Feathers tend to be narrower that those of blacks or wheatens.    It takes continual selection and culling to maintain decent feather quality when mating blue to blue.    But then the same can be said of too much inbreeding.    That is why it is essential to maintain a large enough gene pool to prevent too much inbreeding.   Other signs can be decreased production, a decrease in fertility and/or hatchability, and decrease in size.

Guest

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2005, 09:20:15 AM »
In some breeds of chickens black/dark blue lacing on a blue feather is the standard and on other breeds the standard calls for a blue feather with no lacing.

What is the standard for the ameraucana breed concerning blue feather color?

Rooster

John

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2005, 11:39:47 AM »
Quote
What is the standard for the ameraucana breed concerning blue feather color?

Most of the discription calls for \"clear bluish slate\" feathers \"distinctly laced with glossy black\".

Guest

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2005, 07:38:12 PM »
John,

Thanks for the information. I have been working on producing a quality black and a blue variety of ameraucana. I am two years away from having some quality birds.

Rooster

Mike Gilbert

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2005, 08:53:04 PM »
Rooster,
If you come to the national meet in Michigan next year, or the big show at Indianapolis, I believe we can show you some blue Ameraucanas with decent lacing.   I will have bantams there.   Looking forward to meeting you.

Mike G.

Guest

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2005, 01:51:19 PM »
Mike,

What time of the year are the nationals and the show in Indianapolis? Will there be any shows in Missouri in the near future? I went to a show in Sedalia last year. I only saw two ameraucana large fowl. A black and a white were at the show.

The blue pullet I have is in its juvenile plumage but shows great promise.  She is only heterozygous for extended black (E) the pattern gene (Pg) and the black intensifier melanotic (Ml). I have a splash and a black pullet and a black cockerel.
Between them and other chickens I have I should be able to breed some quality birds.

I am working on producing a red barred easter egger (ameraucana). This will be a fun project because of the genetics behind the cross. I will be using Rhode Island Red, barred hollands, easter eggers and the catalana  to produce the red barred  bird. I know that a red barred ameraucana is not a recognized variety. I do the breeding for the fun and satisfaction. Any way I think a red barred easter egg (ameraucana)  rooster would be a handsome bird.


Rooster

Mike Gilbert

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2005, 04:27:59 PM »
Rooster,
No doubt the red barred would be an attractive pattern.   The barring gene, however, prevents the development of dermal melanin, thus prevents slate legs.   That being the case, it will not qualify as an Ameraucana.   Paul Smith and others worked on barred Ameraucanas for years, but could never get the slate shanks.

Mike

Mike Gilbert

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2005, 04:31:28 PM »
The Ameraucana national will be held in Michigan next October, and the Indianapolis show, expected to draw at least 10,000 entries, is slated for the weekend before Thanksgiving.
Our 2005 national was held at Sedalia, MO, on October 15th.   We had over 160 Ameraucanas shown in large and bantam plus about 7 in the junior show.   A black bantam Ameraucana pullet was awarded grand champion of the entire show.

bantamhill

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2005, 05:45:32 PM »
[/quote]Will there be any shows in Missouri in the near future?

Rooster,

The Missouri Shows I am aware of for 2005 are the following:

Cape G - end of March
State of Missouri Poultry Club - mid to late April (was double judged last year and held in Sedalia
Southern Missouri Poultry Club - October - 2nd weekend - Sedalia - Conflicts with Ameraucana National
IL-MO Poultry Club - 1st weekend in November in Highland, IL - 30 miles east of St. Louis

The Southern Missouri Poultry Club sometimes has a spring show . . . I haven\'t seen it advertised yet.

Michael Muenks
California, MO

Guest

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2006, 03:30:09 AM »
Michael the spring show for the SMPC was cancelled in 2004 due to lack of entries.  I bealive the club is tossing around the idea of making the fall show a double show. Chris

Guest

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2006, 11:10:51 AM »
Mike,

Thanks for the information you saved me alot of money, time and effort. I went back and checked my notes on the genetics behind the breeding project and I had that written down.  Sometimes I shoot myself in the foot and I can not figure out why I am limping. I was too focused on slow feathering, barring, wheaten, melonotic, etc.  Even if I did produce a bird that was W+/W+, id+/id+, eWh/eWh with barring, the barring and wheaten (to some degree)would prevent the addition of melanin to the dermis.  :( What I would wind up with would be a bird with white shanks and feet.  


Rooster



John

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2006, 03:04:29 PM »
Quote
The Ameraucana national will be held in Michigan next October

Go the Bay City Poultry Club website for more info, BCPC.  The site will be updated as we get closer to the show.

Guest

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Breeding blues and blue wheaten
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2008, 08:05:43 PM »
Quote from: John
One of the reasons I\'m working to develop lavender Ameraucanas is because blues don\'t breed true.  I may stop breeding blues once the lavender is accepted.  The same could be done with a lavender wheaten.  Lavender has some feather quality problems associated with it, but it is a very nice color similar to blue but without lacing.


Hi,

Can you tell me why lav doesn\'t have lacing?  Would we WANT to ever make laced lavenders?  Why or why not?
If you wanted to, how would you go about bringing in lacing?

Thanks :)

Liz in Utah