recessive white

[greeneggsandham]

Ok, I have a question regarding this.  Now I have hatched LF blacks in the past that as young ones sometimes show white tips in the wing feathers or one white feather in the wing.  That has always disappeared as they molted.  But now I have hatched a couple of blacks that are showing white in places I haven\'t seen before.  They are now 16 weeks old and one cockeral is showing tiny white feathers coming out near the comb and I have a pullet with just a trace of white tipping or lining the beard feathers.  It doesn\'t look like it is silver or gold.  It looks white.  Is this recessive white showing up?  And that\'s a bad thing right?

[John]

Is this recessive white showing up?

No, it is silver leaking thru.  Select against it the best you can.  

[Beth C]

Along the same lines, I\'m having issues with my juvenile blacks having faint traces of white across the tips of their feathers, mostly in the lower back. Didn\'t notice it last year (only hatched a handful, though) but the one cock that I kept has no trace of white that I can see, so not sure if this will go away, but since I\'ve also had a big problem with super-slow feathering in the blacks I\'m wondering if this is the barring gene and if so, where I go from here, since they\'re all closely related.

[Mike Gilbert]

It is not the barring gene.   If these are juvenile feathers, they will probably go away when the adult feathers come in.

[HarryS]

I have had blacks show up with mottling in the adult plumage but they are lavender splits and as one can see the original Lavender EE has produced a lot of odd colors when it was used in the Orpington projects.  
   This is why if you have black splits lavenders they should only be used to be bred to lavenders and NOT introduced into anyones black lines.  I have seen people using the blacks splits and introducing them into their black pure lines.  Why I can not understand the reasoning to add untested birds into a line that is near pure and took so many years to perfect close to the standards.  
   All the blacks splits not used for my lavenders end up at the auctions so they could be either eaten on enter the infamous backyard type chicken breeders flock for just fun.   Good luck cleaning up the mess.  

[Guest]

 
   All the blacks splits not used for my lavenders end up at the auctions so they could be either eaten on enter the infamous backyard type chicken breeders flock for just fun.   Good luck cleaning up the mess.  

I\'m obviously missing something here. Wouldn\'t selling them live at auction pretty much assure the genes getting back into the breed, though not directly from you?

[Beth C]

It is not the barring gene.   If these are juvenile feathers, they will probably go away when the adult feathers come in.

That\'s a relief - thanks, Mike!

@Harry: The really weird thing is the 2 splits I hatched are the only ones w/o it. Totally agree on breeding splits to black -can\'t imagine why anyone would want to. Even if you breed split to split and determine through test mating that a bird isn\'t carrying lavender, the whole point of breeding lavender back to black is improving the lavenders, so it would be highly unlikely that a \"black\" produced from lavender stock would have anything to contribute to blacks.

@Steve: I doubt a serious breeder would buy from a livestock auction, both for bio-security reasons and because they would want to know the genetics of the bird they\'re buying. If anything they\'d end up with the yo-yo who\'s already selling EE mutts as \"thoroughbred Americanas.\"  :rolleyes:

[John]

Wouldn\'t selling them live at auction pretty much assure the genes getting back into the breed, though not directly from you?

When I need or want a black Ameraucana I buy from one of the other ABC members that I personally know to get good stock.  There are SQ birds in backyard flocks all around mid Michigan, but most came from me and were my culls...not always because of phenotype but sometimes because of genotype.  For instance, any black chicks from my silver X silver/black project may look great but I wouldn\'t want them to breed from.  Enough weird traits show up with the numbers that I hatch as it is.

[greeneggsandham]

Well I think I know where the leakage came from since both the pullet and cockeral were from a sister and brother respectively.  I introduced them this year.  They are the common denominator.  I was hoping to improve on the eye color with them.  Looks like they bring their own problems.  

[John]

hoping to improve on the eye color

Maybe it was a good move.  Eye color in the LF blacks has been a problem although it is getting better.  When ever we do an out-cross some unwanted traits come with the package.  Sometimes it is worth it and sometimes it is better to backtrack.

[greeneggsandham]

  Well, that dang \"brother\" that I used this year, attacked me this morning!  My hubby is ready to target practice on him.
  That rooster has never shown aggression towards me before.  I had taken a young pullet from the pen and brought her out in the sunshine to get a good look at her and next thing you know, I\'m getting flogged.  Now I can understand if I was holding a cockeral, but it was a young pullet.
  Dang it hurts!  I was bleeding in three places and my ankle feels like it\'s been sprained!  Can hardly walk. My hubby always told me it hurts like heck, but I never really thought it would be this bad.

[Kirstie]

hoping to improve on the eye color

Maybe it was a good move.  Eye color in the LF blacks has been a problem although it is getting better.  When ever we do an out-cross some unwanted traits come with the package.  Sometimes it is worth it and sometimes it is better to backtrack.

At what age is it safe to evaluate eye color?

[John]

At what age is it safe to evaluate eye color?

I\'m in my late 50s and I can know do it safely.
I would imagine the birds would be mature at about 6 months and that may be a good age for them.

[OldChurchEggery]

I'm bringing up this topic even though it's quite old because I'm curious about potential recessive white coming from buffs. Back in June I let a broody blue Ameraucana hen hatch some eggs of uncertain origin, mostly just to see if she'd prove herself. Some were from my pair of blacks, but the black hen may have been covered by a buff cock I had at the time. Everything hatched out black except for one yellow chick. The group is almost 4 months old now and the cockerel in question is bright white with light slate legs. Since the horrible heat wave in mid-June killed all of the potential parents involved, I don't have a way of test mating to figure out where the white came from. Has anyone had recessive white crop up in buffs or is it more likely to have come from the blacks? Once they're mature I suppose I could try crossing him over one of the two black pullets from the same hatch and see what happens. I would appreciate any thoughts on it in the meantime, though, since it could be a while before the pullets begin to lay.

[John]

Has anyone had recessive white crop up in buffs or is it more likely to have come from the blacks?

I'm assuming you are referring to LF.  I hatch a good number of both varieties each year and don't remember seeing any white chicks from either in recent years.  Recessive genes can be there, yet hid very well for many generations.  It just takes the right mating and walla (voila), it appears like magic.
Whites were used different times and by different breeders to improve some of the traits of the buffs.