Advise concerning a new ameraucana breed.

[Guest]

I would like the advise from this forum concerning a new variety of ameraucana.

What new variety of ameraucana would ameraucana fanciers like to see produced?

Please, no lectures on working on the established varieties.

Rooster

[Guest]

Something rare, not found in many breeds would be nice. I have done polls on 3 major poultry sites (privately in email) and have found that the #1 reason people were choosing to breed Ameraucanas was egg color. #2 reason was the unusual colors such as Blue Wheaten and Wheaten. Unless someone breeds pit games, which is illegal in many areas, they are unlikely to find these colors in other breeds (although OEGB has almost every color and is highly popular).

One color I have worked with in the past in my Key West Gypsies was Cuckoo Red Partridge. To my knowledge, it is only found in the Bielefelder of Germany as an established color.

bielefelder hen

barring in male

Some people have also worked on pure orange barred fowls as well. I have crossed a cuckoo red gypsy cock to an ameraucana hen and I am awaiting the first hatch.


I would definetly suggest something rare/unusual. Many gamefowl colors are red based and since many of the standard and developed colors are red based, perhaps one could look to the American Game for colors?
(or color crosses within Ameraucana could work, for a white to a Red of some sort makes Pyle and I have made Crow Winged Red Polish from a White Crested Black cock on a Buff Laced hen)
My cockerel

[Guest]

I would like the advise from this forum concerning a new variety of ameraucana.

What new variety of ameraucana would ameraucana fanciers like to see produced?

Please, no lectures on working on the established varieties.

Rooster

Well forgoing the lectures I would say the best thing would be to breed something that would go with what we have or something that may be will make the breed more appealing to the folks not already raising the breed. The people working with the milky gene are doing this as it goes with Black. You could do Lemon Blue....it would go with Brown Red. One of my favorite colors in Chickens is Salmon as in Salmon Favoroles. I don\'t have them....and probably won\'t get any....but the color is very pleasing. Red as in Red Cochins would be nice.....you don\'t see many chickens that color anymore. Red as in RIR would be nice too....RIR\'s are really getting to be more popular in the showroom.

But I would stick to what is here and work on a breed that is in trouble....I think all of us should pick a breed like that and try to help preserve it....John B is doing that with the Vorworks (sp?).

Happy New Year !!! Thurman

[John]

What new variety of ameraucana would ameraucana fanciers like to see produced?

I know of four varieties that some of us are working on and could help with.  Black gold & lavender in both LF and bantams.  The black gold bantams have the most people working on them and are close to being where they need to be, but we just made our first crosses for the other three this past year.
Jim Tuckwood, of WI, has been working on red bantams.
As Mike mentioned, a few were breeding to develop barred LF several years ago but they have given up to the best of my knowledge.
 :rolleyes:  

[Guest]

Really? Barred would be relatively easy to introduce! I cannot believe they gave up on it!!

I also have an F1 AmeraucanaxRIR cross. He is completely Mohogany in all feathers. However, he carries a defect which eliminates the last digits of the middle toes on both feet and I am reluctant to breed him.

I love Lemon Blues! They would be an excellent color.

The rare breed which I raise is (obviously) the Key West Gypsy. I will soon be head of developing the Rose Combed variety and getting it set to standard in the coming years.

[Guest]

Also, what are the four varieties?
Lavender, Black Gold and Red...what was the other?

I should be going to Delmarva show this year...I could bring some of my birds even though I cannot show most of the breeds and varieties which I posses (nonstandard). The man in charge of running the show said that the Ameraucana Breeders Club had not responded to his inquiry on a club meet there and he was waiting for a reply.

[grisaboy]

I am currently working on the Lavendar bantams and large fowl.  I am also working to improve the Silver bantams.

Some other varieties that I think would be fairly easy to obtain are splash and splash wheatons (Perhaps these could have a catchy name like Pyle Wheatons since the males look like the Red Pyle color).
Some other not so easy, but obtainable colors are Birchen and Golden (like the golden Phoenix).
Remember that if you do create a new variety,  It would require a concerted effort by the ABC to get the variety in the standard.  That means you would have to get other breeders interested in your new variety to get them recognized.  

Best Regards
Curtis

[John]

Really? Barred

Please check the posts by Rooster and Mike Gilbert under the Breeding blues and blue wheaten topic.

Also, what are the four varieties?

The four varieties that I mentioned were black gold & lavender in both LF and bantams.  Two or more of us are working on each of these and we need at least 5 for 5 years to try to get them accepted.  Only one person is working on the bantam reds that I know of, so that would take even more interested breeders.

the Ameraucana Breeders Club had not responded to his inquiry on a club meet there

According to our Meet Policy \"...Meets will only be placed by a district director if a member in his or her district requests a meet for a specific show in time for the distribution of information via the ABC quarterly Bulletin prior to the entry deadline for that show...\"  Evidently no member has requested a meet for that show.

[John]

Some other varieties that I think would be fairly easy to obtain are splash and splash wheatons

Thanks Curtis, I\'d forgotten that Paul and some others are interested in splash.  I beleive it is under another topic.

Lets take a surrvey of who is working on what new varieties.  I\'ll start with what I think I know (below) and let me know any names that I should add or delete,

Bantam black gold, Mike Gilbert, Wayne Gritter, Beth Collier, Angela Stanley, Alnice Nichols, Michael Muenks, Lyne Peterson, John Blehm.

LF black gold, Lyne Peterson, Michael Muenks, John Blehm.

Bantam lavender (aka self blue), Susie Winder, Curtis Beck, Michael Muenks, John Blehm.

LF lavender (aka self blue), Curtis Beck, Michael Muenks, John Blehm.

Bantam red, Jim Tuckwood.  (I don\'t know of any plans to have this variety recognized.)

LF & bantam - splash & splash wheaten, check out the SPLASHES topic on page two.

LF blue silver, Mike Gilbert. (I don\'t know of any plans to have this variety recognized.)

Bantam & LF blue gold, Lyne Peterson. (I don\'t know of any plans to have these varieties recognized.)

Note: There are topics on page three and perhaps elsewhere on this forum that discuss the lavender & black gold projects.

[faith valley]

Is it possible to get a photo of each of these varieties posted?  That would certainly go along way to help new breeders decide if that is a variety they wanted to work toward.  In addition to the photo it would be wonderful to have the description of each  proposed variety that everyone is breeding toward so that we would all be working toward the same goal.

Right now we are just working on the wheaten and blue wheaten in bantam and will be persuing a nice silver standard male to begin working with our standard silvers.

I must agree that the salmon and the lemon blue varieties are also two of my favorites.

~Patty~

[bantamhill]

The list of unrecognized varieties at Bantam Hill currently being bred:

Black Gold - bantam, since 2003
Black Gold - large fowl, since 2005
Self Blue - bantam, since 2005
Self Blue - large fowl, since 2005
Black-tailed Red - bantam, since 2004
millie fluer - bantam, since 2004
crele/cuckoo - large fowl, since 2005
Blue Silver - large fowl, 2006
Blue Silver - bantam, 2005

I have both splash and wheaten splash bird here and there and I am willing to save birds to make breeding pens. I have some crele and cuckoo birds running around in both bantam and large fowl running around, but I have basically abandoned the bantam strain and I am focusing on large fowl cockerel that migh pass the slate/black test - but I don\'t hold out much hope and will probably abandon them all based on what I am seeing. I would love to see the red barred, but I don\'t think we will ever get a slate or black leg on a barred or cuckoo bird unless there is an heirloom variety to steal a rare gene from. My large fowl cross was to a cuckoo Maran that had black legs. I think it is really just excessive spotting that would pass as a black or slate leg the cockerel is good, but I don\'t hold out much hope.

That being said, if I was to look at a rare color to pursue, and one I am likely to pursue, it would be Exchequer. This really harkens back to one of the first bantam hens I ever had that was what I now know to be Exchequer in color. She was a mixed bantam, but I have always loved the color. I had considered mottled, but I really like the Exchequer and will be ordering some leghorn stock this spring and will start some initial crosses in late fall 2006.

All of this is a lot of fun and good for the brain. The problem is that there have to be people willing to commit to a program long-term. Of the eight recognized varieties of Ameraucana I doubt there is really a sustainable population of most of the varieties. If a few people leave Ameraucana\'s in several varieties, there simply will not be that variety and it will have to be recreated, ie silver bantam.

I agree with the statement that it would be best if new varieties work with another variety - it helps the sustainability factor. So splash and splash wheaten seem logical. I would content that self blue can be sustainable with either black lines or brown red lines, so I support lavendar. I realize the other colors on my list are not paired with anything and so they have been mostly out of pure enjoyment and I wouldn\'t expect them to gain a following.

Happy New Year!

Michael Muenks

[Guest]

I would be willing to work on more varieties if I could obtain the stock. The main issue here is finding the birds to work with. When you live in some of the last vestiges of rural land, and island in a land of a suburban county...it is hard to find other breeders, many of whom illegally hold their birds in neighborhoods and thus are not stable.

All of those varieties sound amazing to me. I enjoy fiddling with color a lot too. Although I have latent issues with identifying Red colors, I don\'t mind taking the time to correct mistakes. I am trying to think of breeds with cuckoo and black legs...only one I can think of is the silkie, but fibromelanosis of the entire fowl is responsible and not an acceptable coloration.

I don\'t have any Ameraucana bantams, but I would love to start breeding them. All I have are Black and White large fowl and a few miscellanious. There is a decent silver hen and a poor wheaten (apparently) cock among a few others. The cock will go to my Red Pyles (for fun). I also have a Red cock and some Barred eggs in the bator.

If anyone is going to PA/MD/VA/DE/WV and can deliver birds to shows this spring I would be willing to purchase some stock in eggs, chicks or adults of colors which need improvement. Last year I culled my flock sizes in half and I have several empty pens which once housed extra blacks and whites. I also have shipping boxes and express permission from my post office to send and recieve fowl without surcharge in payment. From some artwork I sold recently I have quite a bit of spare cash and lots of pen room.

[John]

If anyone is going to PA/MD/VA/DE/WV and can deliver birds to shows this spring I would be willing to purchase some stock in eggs, chicks or adults

With your membership you\'ll get a Breeders List and a copy of the last ABC Bulletin which has a list of all the 2005 members.  It may be helpful in tracking down some birds.  I know we have a couple members in Maryland and a few in Pennsylvania.  Try contacting our NE District Director, Larry Clionsky - lclionsky@yahoo.com.  He is a real asset to the club and tries to attend most of the ABC meets in that district.

[Guest]

AmeraucanaMD,

The barring itself is not the problem. The problem is the effect of barring on dermal melanin. The barring gene prevents the addition of melanin to the dermal tissues therefore the chicken does not have blue shanks. Ameraucana should have blue shanks. The exception to the rule is the black variety which can have dark shanks. Dark shanks in ameraucana are due to the extended black gene which causes the addition of melanin to the epidermis and even into the dermis.

Mike,

Jaap wrote a paper in 1955 ( Poultry Science, 34:Pages 389-395)  in which he came to the conclusion that the columbian gene (Co) would prevent the barring gene from removing the melanin from the dermis.  I do not know what line of birds he was working with but I wish I could get a hold of a few of his chickens.  Evidently, his study does not apply to many of the breeds that are walking around today. Barred rocks are a good example because many show quality barred rocks carry the columbian gene but still have yellow legs and feet.


Rooster

[Suz]

I really like the lemon blue color, too.  Are the blue silvers the same as silver blue Old English Games?  Those would be my two favorites to see in Ameraucanas.  What crosses would be made to produce these two varieties?

I will be attempting lavender wheatens this year.  I made the first cross last summer and will hatch as many F2 chicks as I can this year--hoping for a couple of the elusive \"1 out of 16\" ratio!

Susie