Author Topic: developing a lemon blue  (Read 11911 times)

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« on: January 08, 2006, 09:53:57 PM »
Hi all!  I\'ve been following the discussions on new varieties, and we are very interested in working on the blue splash bantam, since we are doing the regular blues already.  we just hatched out our first chicks a few weeks ago, from birds John sent last fall.

several other people have expressed interest in doing a lemon blue, and we are extremely interested in trying this variety.  I have a nice lemon blue bantam cubalaya cockerel, but I\'m not real familiar with the way the genetics work.  however, this variety already has a pea comb, and pink-tinged white skin.  

I was thinking if I did a second cross, using a lemon blue OEGB, with dark shanks, and then crossed the results of these matings in the second generation, would progress happen faster?  would the tail sets of three start to balance out? and what color Ameraucana hens would I use for this?

and actually, where does one find all of this genetic code info- you guys are able to throw up these intricate strings of gene combinations, but how do you find them out in the first place? how to know what is dominant, what recessive?  is there a book or website?  I\'d like to get a little more educated, so that I can make slightly better guesses than I am now!  :rolleyes:

thank you for listening!

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2006, 11:29:43 PM »
If it were me I would first cross a BrownRed and a splash( first choice) from Blue ( as in Blue Black ) and then as a second choice Brown Red and a Blue Wheaton Splash. I would then use these blue factored offspring back to Brown Reds. Keep careful records. I would guess three generations to Lemon Blue Females with lacing on the breast, if you started with Brown Reds with lacing.... Thurman.

John

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2006, 09:37:57 AM »
Quote
where does one find all of this genetic code info-

A good starting place is http://marsa_sellers.tripod.com/geneticspages/page0.html

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2006, 12:17:36 PM »
Quote from: John
Quote
where does one find all of this genetic code info-

A good starting place is http://marsa_sellers.tripod.com/geneticspages/page0.html


whew- it\'s like a foreign language!  :o  been a long time since I took biology, but a little is coming back.

thank you John!

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2006, 08:41:04 PM »
there are many lemon blue oegb with lots of body fluff and over sized so a cross to them for color would be pretty easy to get back to type in a few generations

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2006, 10:49:35 PM »
Alouez,

I have been studying chicken genetics for four years now. I have read many abstracts, numerous papers and a number of books. I spend about 5-10 hours a week doing research and finding information. I have a degree in biology and chemistry. I am still learning about how it all fits together.  There are still numerous traits of the chicken that have a genetic componenet that have not been documented. Stuff happens. Good luck. As Thurman said, keep good records.

Cubalaya Genetics- Lemon blue Variety male

pea comb- P/P
white skin - W+/W+
sex linked dermal melanin inhibitor- Id/Id
e locus- ER/ER -birchen
sex linked gold s+/s+
white egg shell o+/o+
long tailed Gt/Gt, Mt+/Mt+
Bl/bl+ blue feather color
large fowl size- sex linked normal -Dw+/Dw+
white ear lobe- polygenetic

Chew on that information for a while.

Rooster

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 08:10:43 AM »
There may also be local classes to take on genetics. I plan to pursue genetics as a potential major in a few years. Grades have been good enough to go practically anywhere (I plan for a Cornell summer veterinary course!).
If you can find someone local to help teach you that could be invaluable as well.

There are two or three books that I can think of off the top of my head but they all cost around $200 off of amazon.

Here\'s just a few random sites off of my favorite list:
Interesting, has comments: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4175/genes.html

Almost dead, has some good stuff:
http://groups.msn.com/PoultryGenetics

Plans out most common crosses even though in DAnvers:
I LOVE THIS SITE!
http://home.ezweb.com.au/~kazballea/belgians/lowgraphic.htm

http://www.birdfarm.bravepages.com/blugenex.html


http://groups.msn.com/CHICKENCHRONICLES/geneticstudies.msnw

grisaboy

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 08:58:55 AM »
You should be able to make some nice lemon blues without going outside the breed.  Find the best brown red that you can find and cross to the best splash or blue that you can find.
Breed the best blue birds with some yellow in the hackles back to the brown red. You should have some nice lemon blue birds in two generations.
You could make them with  Cubalaya or Old English, and get the correct color in one or two generations.  But it will take many more generations to correct for type and egg color issues that you will get from the other breeds.

Curtis

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 01:19:25 PM »
I have found some errors in the genetics presented on some of the sites I have reviewed.


The Bantam Roost Site.

The sex linked gold gene is s+ not G. Gold is recessive to sex linked silver and is found at the same locus or place on the chromosome.

There is no documented ar gene or autosomal red.

There is no Ab gene for autosomal barring or Lg or Sp genes.




Genetics of Belgian Barbu Bantams & Links Site

There is no recessive black. Everthing else looks good.




Three peas bird farm site.

Stay away from this site he does not know his genetics.


The Marsa Sellers site- Genetics for the non professional is very good and is backed by the latest research.

Rooster


Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2006, 03:05:52 PM »
The bantam roost site got its stuff from an older text so I expect quite a bit to be out of date. I think it was 1983??

I didn\'t see the recessive black bit. Where is it?

For a fun read to see how much genetic knowledge has increased in recent years, check out R. B. Hutt\'s Genetics of the Fowl. I enjoyed seeing how in about 50 years almost every piece of knowledge (except for recessive and dominant white) has been rewritten.

The peafowl page has gotten great reviews and poor ones. Since there aren\'t many pages on peafowl genetics...there it is. I haven\'t read it yet personally but when I find an interesting site I bookmark it.

Not even Sellers is complete...but it is the best out there.

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2006, 03:07:09 PM »
I also was forwarded this recently:
http://www.panopliageneticus.com/

The article on red shoulder and related colors is quite interesting.

Guest

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 04:21:12 PM »
Recessive black is under  Varieties based on the e+ (wild type) allele

Brian Reeder knows  chicken genetics. I am sure his site
http://www.panopliageneticus.com/ is very good.

Rooster


Mike Gilbert

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2006, 07:08:50 PM »
Curtis,

Well said.   It should not be at all difficult to make lemon blues by staying within the breed.   Besides everything else to look out for when crossing to an outside breed, there is also the matter of egg  color for this breed.   Some of our members are not at all happy with egg color in some varieties that has resulted from outcrosses.   It should be blue, not green or some other color.

vanalpaca

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 10:35:27 AM »
Quote from: Guest
Recessive black is under  Varieties based on the e+ (wild type) allele

Brian Reeder knows  chicken genetics. I am sure his site
http://www.panopliageneticus.com/ is very good.

Rooster



This site is down, but he has now written a book on it and it was published in 2008 and again in 2011. He does have a new website up but it hasn\'t been updated in a while. I searched on brian reeder chicken genetics and found the site and the link to his book with a \'really long\' title....

I love that so many here can talk genetics. I will keep reading.

dixieland

  • Guest
developing a lemon blue
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 10:03:14 PM »
I love Lemon Blue and have been working on this in my LF Cochins for several years, but it\'s not an easy one!!! You can\'t just let type go to work on coloring....
If Brown Red is one of the most challenging varieties to breed in Ameraucanas ( I have heard this from several experienced breeders, not my words) then Lemon Blue will be very challenging as well.....
Is anyone currently working on this color project?? Lemon Blue is magnificent when it comes on a gorgeous bird!