The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
What causes shafting
Beth C:
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Birchen (brown red) birds have gold (red) feathers and although the lavender gene dilutes black to lavender it dilutes red to isabel. If you have lavender males that are isabel where a brown red would be red, your bird is probably not E/E.
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And the light bulb just came on! Everyone was talking about brassiness in lavenders, but the males I got were practically 2-tone. I remember looking at the lavender wheaten project and thinking I had birds out here that were real close to that. I\'ve also had lots of blacks with leakage, and had those 2 sports pop up out of my black pen that were nearly silver. When I got my blacks from Wayne they were from a b/b/s pen, so they were likely birchen based. I\'ve gotten rid of all of the blacks except to cocks who, at 2 & 3 years old, still show no leakage. Any chance they might be extended black? And would it really matter if they were, since the lavenders are apparently birchen based?
Guest:
The coloration on the Lavender Wheaten project cockerals is much different than what comes out on the lavenders. I have seen lavenders leak a lemon color on their wings, hackles and saddle feathers, which I promptly cull. The LWs hackles are more like the color of a wheaten hens body...creamy.
John:
--- Quote ---Any chance they might be extended black?
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Yes, but they may be very good ER birds. My \"guess\" is if they have black shanks they are E/E, but if slate shanks they are ER/ER.
--- Quote ---they were from a b/b/s pen, so they were likely birchen based.
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What makes you think so? I would assume Extended black, but I don\'t know what his blacks are based on.
--- Quote ---And would it really matter if they were, since the lavenders are apparently birchen based?
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The lavenders that I developed are based on Extended black (E), but many people have crossed them with their blacks and some of those blacks are birchen (ER). Just as we have blacks bred up from two different e-locus genes, we may now have lavenders the same way. I believe that is causing the problems.
You (as in you all) can\'t buy top quality birds from two different breeders (well known and well respected), cross those birds and necessarily get birds like the parent stock you bought...unless you know the genetics behind both strains are the same.
Some varieties can be bred to the standard using two different e-locus (foundational or primary) genes. They can be show quality and have the same phenotype (looks) without having the same genotype. Bird are only judged by phenotype. That is why the best show quality birds can produce not so pretty progeny.
In the end you can breed your blacks, blues, lavenders, etc, based on the e-locus genes you want. The warning here is to be carefull that the birds you buy to breed with your birds are the same.
John:
--- Quote ---leak a lemon color on their wings, hackles and saddle feathers,
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Those are the ones that are lavener ER/ER without melanizers. Check it out on the Kip calculator...
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html
Guest:
yes and they looked different from the LW. I think I\'ve had 2 lavs leak lemon in the past 3 years. Any blacks or lavs that have leakage I cull as EE\'s.
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