Breeder Selection

[Max]

•AMERAUCANA BREEDING AND SELECTION – THE FINER POINTS By Mike Gilbert November 2007; Revised October 2013

I'm looking forward to reading this, but until then...

I have been searching the forum for several days now trying to find a discussion on breeder selection. I try to find the answers to my questions before posting but can’t seem to do it this time. So, for the long time breeders like Mike and John, here are a few.

When selecting your breeders, do you look for anything outside the SOP description? I know with many breeds the best don’t always produce the best.

Would you, or have you ever considered double mating to produce better show birds? Such as with the Wheaten varieties…  I believe there are some breeds that require a cockerel breeding pen and a pullet breeding pen to produce the best show birds.

Thanks, and I hope I haven't overlooked the answers somewhere. I have a very good start from Paul and John and I want to do everything I can to maintain and continue improving their hard work...

[John]

Max,

I won't take time just now to answer your question, but will start with a couple references. 
From the Home page of this forum do a search for Ralph.  Many times you will see that Michael, Mike and I have recommended this little booklet.  It doesn't deal with Ameraucanas.  It is just a nice book to get some general breeding tips from.  Maybe you already have it.
This link has a link to the book by Ralph.  Since the topic of Ralph's book came up often with questions like yours these topics are worth reading.
http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=1505.0

On the topic of double mating.  I won't do it.  I know it is needed to have show quality males and females with some varieties, but I'm stubborn and won't breed a variety that doesn't breed true enough to produce Standard males and female from one mating.
 
Later...

[Mike Gilbert]

Max, the only varieties I ever considered double mating were the wheatens and blue wheatens, but I'll admit I was never that strong into the silvers.    As far as looking into anything outside the SOP, most definitely.
Fast growth and feathering, vitality, longevity, egg production and color, resistance to common poultry diseases,  . . the list goes on.  Temperament would go very high on that list too.

[Max]

Thanks John,

That topic answered a lot. It also led me to a few other topics that helped as well. I guess it just reinforces some things I already knew or suspected. It takes a while for some things to sink in, and when it does, judging your own birds is much easier when you don't have to keep going back and forth referencing material and looking at the birds.

As far as double mating goes I would have to agree. I don't like the thought of having to raise that many birds. Although I might consider it later on (probably years) with the Wheatens and Blue Wheatens when I have more knowledge and experience.

Mike,

I guess what I meant by outside the SOP was referring to type. For example, say you had a male with a short back and long legs, and a female with a long back and short legs. Although neither would be considered show quality, breeding them together may produce some show quality birds that more closely matched the SOP description?? I think that may be describing compensation breeding...

[greeneggsandham]

Max,

I won't take time just now to answer your question, but will start with a couple references. 
From the Home page of this forum do a search for Ralph.  Many times you will see that Michael, Mike and I have recommended this little booklet.  It doesn't deal with Ameraucanas.  It is just a nice book to get some general breeding tips from.  Maybe you already have it.
This link has a link to the book by Ralph.  Since the topic of Ralph's book came up often with questions like yours these topics are worth reading.
http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=1505.0

On the topic of double mating.  I won't do it.  I know it is needed to have show quality males and females with some varieties, but I'm stubborn and won't breed a variety that doesn't breed true enough to produce Standard males and female from one mating.
 
Later...

John I found this quote from you in the above link in answer to one of my questions:

Quote


All chickens have silver (S) or gold (s+) or a combination (S/s+, split as some say) and they would look more silver (white in my eyes) since it is dominant.  So regardless of the primary pattern gene (E, ER, eb, etc.) all have it and pass it on whether you see it or not.
You actually want the blacks to carry gold (s+/s+) to have the best black color with a green sheen.

Quote

After reading that it occured to me to ask if the presence of white in the juvenile black plummage such as in the wing tips or muffs indicate the presence of S or S/s+?  If so, would the lack of white in juvenile plummage mean s+/s+ or not necessarily?

[Mike Gilbert]

The white wingtips in juveniles is not an indicator of S or s.   I have seen it in the Golden Laced Wyandottes I raised years ago.  Most often it goes away, but sometimes it is still there in the adult plumage.  If you want to test a black, blue, or splash male for S/s, cross it on a silver.   If all the female offspring end up with some gold or red feathers in the hackle the male tested is ss which is homozygous for sex linked gold.   If some females have red and some have white, the tested male is split for S and s.    If all the females have white in the hackle, the tested male was SS, homozygous for sex linked silver.   If some of the males have white in the hackle and some have amber, the tested male was split for S and s.   If all the males have amber, the male was ss (homozygous for sex linked gold).  If all the males have white in the hackle, the tested male was SS (homozygous for sex linked silver).    Females inherit only one copy of S or s, so cannot be split like the males can be.   Obviously you would need a fair sized sample to do the test.

[greeneggsandham]

Thanks Mike.  Good info.  Too much for me to attempt though.     Not enough room and no silver.