Breeding Procedure Question

[Holiday Hatch]

The way I started my flock is as follows; and I would like advice if this is good or bad policy.
I started with hatching eggs.  From that hatch, I separated out the cockerel from the pullets and put them into two groups.   
I got eggs from second breeder and kept only one cockerel to put with the pullets in the above group.
I got eggs from a third breeder and kept one pullet which I put with the cockerel in the above group.
I was working with stock from 3 different breeders.
Out of the chicks I got from the above crossings, I've taken the best cockerel from one group and plan to cross him with the pullets from the other group.
Is this crossing procedure too closely related?  Would I be better off bringing in an outside cockerel and do line breeding in the future?   
Thanks for the help - Linda

[John]

Out of the chicks I got from the above crossings, I've taken the best cockerel from one group and plan to cross him with the pullets from the other group.
Is this crossing procedure too closely related?

I don't think so and it sounds like a good plan.

My personal opinion is to start with the best quality stock of the variety you want from one source. Then develop two or more (more is better) breeding groups (stains/lines) from them, crossing cockerels from one group over the hens/pullets in the other as you said.  Close breeding without breeding siblings or parents with offspring, after that first year, is my suggestion.

My concern would be crossing birds, of the same variety, from different breeders/sources.  Generally it won't be a problem, but not every strain of a variety is necessarily built on the same e-locus genes or made up of the same genes from there on up.  Outcrosses of birds from two show quality lines may reveal some traits that neither displayed.  This is more apt to happen with some varieties than others.

[Holiday Hatch]

Close breeding without breeding siblings or parents with offspring, after that first year, is my suggestion.

Thank you for the feedback John.  I have Wheaten/Blue Wheaten.  Per your above statement, I know not to do siblings, but I thought father to daughter and son to mother is good practice.

[John]

I thought father to daughter and son to mother is good practice.

It is to set a trait that you see in the parent bird, but other than that I wouldn't do it as a regular breeding practice.

[Holiday Hatch]

There's so much I need to learn and I appreciate the input.  My concern was the gene pool I'm working with from 3 breeders stock wasn't big enough.  Because with those original hatching eggs, one cross beek chick hatched which I never used for breeding.  I've had a couple of very slight cross beeks hatch since which I've culled.  I thought crossing the lines the way I did might have caused that.  Any more thoughts on this are appreciated.  Linda

[Tailfeathers]

Obviously I haven't been on here in awhile and can see I'm a bit behind!  Just wanted to echo John's comments.

I started in 2007 with 15 different lines all from Paul's eggs.  Thankfully Paul toe-punched the chicks before shipping them to me.  Had 4 different cockerel lines and then rotated the same lines of pullets under each of the cockerels without breeding brother to sister.  I've maintained a closed flock and never brought in any new blood.

Since my start it has been a process of specific line breeding and identifying who had what genes.  I've managed to identify who had brown egg gene modifiers and eliminate them.  I've eliminated almost all the red/orange from the tails of the males.  I've increased the black/blue in the tails and wings dramatically.  I had birds that weren't giving me any eggs for six months of the year and I've eliminated that.  My egg production is up and now I'm working on increasing egg size and color.  In working with egg color and production, I created one line that is giving me white eggs with one being a very light beige.  Guess what she's carrying?  I'm using those birds to color test my males and actually have some of those eggs in the incubator as I type this.  I can also go back thru my previous year's breeding pens and see who she's related to. I still have to clean up the hackles on the males.  Have yet to get a clean hackled bird and to get full colored beards.  And I've yet to get homozygous full beards and muffs.

So all that is to say the faster you can close up your flock the faster you can start identifying what you have in genetic material.  I don't know all that much about genetics so most of my breeding is based on things I read and trial and error.  Mostly, if it works do it again.  If it don't work, don't do it.  Right now I'm down to 5 lines (counting the white egg line).  Eventually I hope to get down to two.  I'll line breed them until I have to outcross and then that will be over to the other line where I'll start a 3rd and use it until I can get back down to two again.  I believe this is what Kenny Troiano wrote about in the PP and says he's maintained a closed flock for 25 years.

Hopes that helps some.  Keep good records and that will help a lot too!

God Bless,