Conditioning housing for prospective show birds

[Susan Mouw]

I've gone through some of the threads here and found a lot of good suggestions, but I thought I'd just start a new thread.

Currently, all my pens are 8 x 8 or bigger and house either a trio or a quad or more.  Each pen has a separate enclosed area where the chickens can get out of the weather and where the hens can lay their eggs.  This style works well for breeding, but not so well if I'm trying to get conditioning and training for a few show prospects.

Please note that I do not have a small barn available (yet), so whatever I build for show conditioning has to be free standing and out in the elements.

So...here are my questions. 

• What is your setup for show conditioning/training? Feel free to share pics - I'd love to see them.
• How long before the show season do you put birds in the show cages?
• What does your training consist of and how is it accomplished? (eg. do you use food to train the chickens to come to the front of the cage or is it just a matter of getting them used to being handled?)
• And, finally, do you change the diet of the birds in the conditioning cages, and if so, to what?

Thanks for your input.

[Don]

There are so many different approaches to providing conditioning pens and I always am interested in pictures of folks facilities.  The main goal is to get the birds separated into areas where they can't pick or soil each other.  I've heard some folks will keep 2-3 females together.  But they don't provide roosts unless they have dropping boards.  Obviously they need to be dry so a raised pen is easy to rake droppings and replace dry shavings.  Wire is a problem if they can back into or rub feathers.  So most folks will make the wall surfaces of plywood except for the front.  Just make sure you have enough ventilation in the heat.  Pen size is determined by the breed.  I might suggest min 2' dimensions for LF and 16" for bantam AMs.  Bigger birds such as Rocks will probably require more.  Make sure they can move and exercise for bone/muscle growth. You might be able to build some pens along the inside of your breeding pens.

As far as time, I've always heard that it takes about six weeks for the primary wing and tail feathers to grow.  The trick is to time the molt to coincide with the shows.  Natural molts are hard to predict especially with our current strange weather.  I think the shows in the south are typically later in the year because our birds naturally molt later. The fairs in the north are finished much earlier than ours start because of the seasonal differences.  I've never done  Forced molts but lots of folks might chime in to give you their advice here.

I expect you can get many different ideas for feed during conditioning.  Make sure it's a good ration you trust.  Variety is my preference to make sure the birds have a variety of minerals/proteins.  I only feed corn when it's really cold and they need the calories. But wheat and oats are good in small amounts.  Grains are good and easy to sprout or mix with oils or vitamin mixes.  Some will use cod liver oil, garlic and brewers yeast, red cell, clovite, etc. 

Spend time with them, feed them treats, meat scraps, dog burger treats.  Handle them, stretch the wings as the judge will in the show hall.  Use a judging stick, to try to calm and pose them.  Anything to get them comfortable will help them in the show hall.  There are lots of tricks to get them to "show" better than the competition.  Patty suggested to use a treat with a specific noisy wrapper, condition the bird to approach the front of the pen.  Unwrap and crinkle one of these as the judge approaches your birds cage.   ..... I've even seen showmen flick corn into a competitor bird's pen to have the competition break stance just as the judge as making those last placements.  Not that I would suggest this!  But some folks really want to win.

[Susan Mouw]

Don

You gave some very helpful information and made me think of more questions.

You mentioned a forced molt - how does one go about doing that and at what time (in relation to upcoming shows - eg..6 weeks ahead, 2 mos ahead, etc)

I have insulated panels - like what they use for the underflooring on ice skating rinks.  We've made a couple of three-sided shelters for the free range birds and turkeys and it sounds like these might work perfect for these pens.  I'll see if I can get a picture and show you what I'm talking about.

Ok..diet - anyone want to share what they do about diet for their show birds and if it changes pre-molt, molt, and post molt.

Thanks

[Mike Gilbert]

Perhaps this goes without saying, but many of us plan our hatches to coincide with the amount of time it takes in our own particular setups to raise pullets and cockerels to the point where they are in prime condition.   The amount of time needed can vary, so we learn that from experience and good record keeping. With pullets, that would be their point of the onset of laying.  Cockerels may take a little more time because the final hackle and tail feathers seem to take a little more time to grow in.  I feed my young birds a balanced commercial growing ration - nothing fancy.  In the winter I might supplement with some raw (thawed) meat & fat that had been ground up from venison scraps.   If you can get them out on grass when it is available, especially with room to range a bit, it really helps.   Some folks cage their show prospects for extended periods of time so they can work with them to keep them calm at shows.  I prefer to select and breed from the ones that are naturally tame, so a few days in a show sized cage is all they get.   What it boils down to is each person has to experiment a little bit to find what works best for him/herself.
If pullets and cockerels are hatched too early, they may molt when you want to show them.   Too late, and they won't be in prime feather condition.   With old birds, I have found it is impossible to predict when they might go into a molt, because a lot of that has to do with the weather.  The trick with old birds is to keep enough of them to be able to select the ones that are in condition to show when the time comes.   The worst thing to do for conditioning Ameraucanas is to crowd them indoors.   That can lead to boredom, and boredom can lead to them picking out each others beards and muffs.   Then you have to wait for another molt before they are fit to show. 

[Susan Mouw]

Thank you, Mike!  I can see I'm going to have to start treating this hobby with the same seriousness of intent as I did the horse and dog breeding!

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, then if I want my pullets to be in prime show condition for when the shows are here (usually Sept/Oct in the fall and starting in Mar in the spring), then I want to time their hatch so they have not hit their first molt yet, right?

Therefore, if my pullets are hitting that first molt in the 6 month range, and given my show dates, then I don't want them hatching before April-May?

Is that a general rule - they hit that first molt around 6 months of age? 

I also agree with what you said about choosing the most amenable for your show stock.  One of the traits of the Ameraucanas that I first fell in love with is that wonderful personality and something I will definitely be looking to maintain in my breeding stock.

Any other breeders in the southeast area (NC, SC, GA) that can share their timetables for hatching/molting/showing?

Thanks, everyone - I'm really learning from this.

[Mike Gilbert]

Susan, I believe you have the gist of what I said.   Keep in mind that pullets may not take quite as long as cockerels to finish out, so maybe spread the hatches a month apart.   You are asking good questions.

[Susan Mouw]

Okay...next question, Mike (or anyone who would like to answer)

If I plan my hatches earlier - say between Jan-early March, then they should have all gone through that first molt by even the earliest shows.  Wouldn't that be better, as they will be showing a more "mature" feathering and coloration?

Although, in order for that to work, I would have to do a force molt as it would not be cool enough or enough night hours for a molt to occur naturally here in SC.  So..who can help me with how to and the pros/cons of a forced molt?

[Russ]

Ok I finally have some free time  . I personally use individual pens with plywood sides and wire fronts for my conditioning pens. I sorta copied Johns breeding pens except I modified  them to use some wood I got off a job site (I love free). Plus I wrapped them with some left over ice guard (what goes on roof under the shingles) it is super sticky and sticks right on the plywood. So they measure 26inx34in inside and it consists of 6 holes, in the spring I use them for individual LF matings and/or a trio of bantams. Then they are turned into conditioning pens after the last hatch. As soon as I think a bird has prospect it goes into a proper pen. With bantams I can grow out 3 per pen with good results putting pullets with pullets and cockerels with cockerels. As they finish out I leave the best in the pen and remove the rest. This way helps me judge them with the others as they grow if they are in too big of a flock or in seperate pens I find it harder to judge them. I also built some wire pens but quit using them for conditioning pens after noticicing damage to feather edges. I feed a custom blended layer feed with 20% protein until last week before the show then switch them to grains (help harden/firm droppings). Mike is right timing your hatches is crucial and something I am still trying to figure out with my LF. I try to handle them daily key word is try, unfortunately life does not always allow me the time. Last but not least go to shows and watch and ask other fanciers what they do and have fun 

[John]

Mike is right timing your hatches

This was one of the main reasons we changed the rule several years ago to place our annual National Meets by November 15th of the year before that meet...members can plan their hatches (the best they can) to be ready knowing the show/meet dates almost a year in advance.

[Susan Mouw]

Ok, now I'm confused...again.

Reading up on the molts that a chicken goes through, there are two juvenile molts for young chicks - one at 6-8 days and the second one at 7-12 weeks (info courtesy of The Chicken Chick). Then adult molts will occur at 16-18 months old, if conditions are right.

So...it's really that second molt for the cocks and hens that I'm planning my hatches around..correct?  Any cockerels or pullets I'm showing in the fall will have already gone through their two juvenile molts and won't molt again until their second year.

Pretty much all my adult birds have completed their adult molt for this year by now, though I wish I had started marking dates down. So..if I were going to be showing anything this year, they would all be ready to go...right?  (Assuming all else is equal - health, training, conditioning).

[Susan Mouw]

Searching the internet for how to bring on a forced molt and I don't think I like what I'm reading.  I don't think I could do the fasting method and withhold food, in fact, I'm know I couldn't.  I did find one link about light reduction to bring on a molt, but couldn't get the link to open - so I'm still in the dark about that one (sorry - just couldn't resist the pun).

So, would covering cages for a few days (assuming there is still sufficient ventilation) be enough to start a molt? And, once they've gone through that molt, would a chicken go through another when the weather really changes or are they "immune" to weather changes once they've gone through the molt?

[Mike Gilbert]

The second molt is not a factor, as chickens and bantams must be older than that before they are ready to be shown.    What you have to worry about in young birds is unexpected molts  at six to 12 months.   Sudden changes in feed, weather, stress - lots of things can throw them into a molt just when you don't want it to happen.    Some of them you have at least some control over, others you don't.   Unless you have a climate controlled Taj Mahal of a chicken palace.  Under normal conditions most bantams will reach peak show condition at 5 to 7 months, most large fowl chickens 6 to 9 months though some can take longer.  Different breeds, even different strains of the same breed, may vary.  Once again, experience is the best teacher.   By the way, as just a reminder, don't believe everything you see on the internet.   It is a handy tool, but misinformation can be spread at practically the speed of light and tends to be repeated. 
Don't worry about forced molting for young birds as it won't be needed.    And I never had much luck with forced molting of older birds, because I just don't have the heart to put them under that much stress. 

[Schroeder]

Susan:
I do not have a large barn with space for conditioning pens, so here's what I do.  I have three separate coops.  I built this one (my wife calls the two-seater) primarily for use as conditioning pens/coops.  It is 4 ft x 12 ft, with a divider down the middle to create two 4'x6' coops.  A month or more before a show, I transfer 3 or 4 potential female contestants into one side, and typically a cockerel into the other.  Whether I let them outside depends on how wet the ground is.  I usually don't let out the cockerel because free rangers from the other coops may want to pick a fight from the other side of the run.

When not in use for show birds, the structure is quite versatile.  I use it to grow out chicks in the spring, as housing for cocks (with a cardboard divider between the sections so that they can't see each other) or for a larger group with the middle divider removed.

Several days before the show I bring the ones that I intend to show into the garage for bathing and final conditioning.  Ideally I would get them cage ready  earlier than this, but I work with what I have.
Duane

[Jeffery and Cheryl Vance]

Nice set up Duane glad to meet you and your wife.

[Susan Mouw]

The second molt is not a factor, as chickens and bantams must be older than that before they are ready to be shown.    What you have to worry about in young birds is unexpected molts  at six to 12 months.   Sudden changes in feed, weather, stress - lots of things can throw them into a molt just when you don't want it to happen.    Some of them you have at least some control over, others you don't.   Unless you have a climate controlled Taj Mahal of a chicken palace.  Under normal conditions most bantams will reach peak show condition at 5 to 7 months, most large fowl chickens 6 to 9 months though some can take longer.  Different breeds, even different strains of the same breed, may vary.  Once again, experience is the best teacher.   By the way, as just a reminder, don't believe everything you see on the internet.   It is a handy tool, but misinformation can be spread at practically the speed of light and tends to be repeated. 
Don't worry about forced molting for young birds as it won't be needed.    And I never had much luck with forced molting of older birds, because I just don't have the heart to put them under that much stress.

Thank you for clearing that up for me, Mike. I agree on the forced molting - I don't think I could put my birds through that kind of stress.