black gold - too much gold?

[bryngyld]

The sire of my black gold bantams was critiqued as needing more lacing.  Now I\'m afraid I\'ve selected cockerels with too much gold, thinking that would give me more lacing.  (My pullets selected for more gold came out great - with lacing all the way to the tail.)

I really need help chosing which to keep before this weekend when one of them will be sold.  Photos show the sire and then cockerel 1 and 2.  Also the body type in the photos IS the way they look.  #2 has an Old English look.

First I thought I should sell the sire, but now I\'m thinking I should sell cockerel #2 and keep the sire to reduce the amount of gold.  I really don\'t understand the genetics of the pattern to decide!  HELP, please.

[Mike Gilbert]

If the pullets have plenty of lacing I would put them back with the old male.    I never had much luck with brother/sister matings unless it was a first generation outcross in an extended breeding project.   I don\'t like either of the cockerels, and the second one is not even close to black gold.  The first cockerel looks like he needs to finish out, and may be of some use in the next generation, depending on what you get.   What about the hens?   Anything to pick from there?    Another thing to watch for is the eye color.   Maybe it\'s just the photos, but the eyes look very dark;  they need to be reddish bay in color.

Mike Gilbert

[bryngyld]

The pullets came out consistent in type and had a bit more lacing than their moms.  Several are completely laced into the tail.  The #1 cockerel is very young, but I was concerned with the coloring under his wings.  

What color is the #2 cockerel?  I will sell him this weekend but I will keep an eye out for his coloring to cull in the next generation.  I was going to cull him for type anyway but I wanted to see what color he was going to be. (It was dark in the house when I took the photos so their pupils were probably dilated.  I think their eyes are all reddish bay.)

Thanks for your help.

[Mike Gilbert]

If the pullets are that well laced, it means the old male they are out of is a valuable breeder.   Definitely use him over the pullets.    But you need to start another line to keep from getting too inbred in the future.   Why not try the number one cockerel with the hens and see what happens?    With regard to the number one cockerel, we can\'t see his chest from the photo.   He definitely has signs of being the right color, but the chest needs to be black with gold lacing and shafting as well.   It\'s the number two cockerel you should cull, not the first one.   I do like the tail coloring on him.    Are these bantam or large fowl?

[bryngyld]

These are bantams.  Here is another photo of cockerel #1 (I got confused with my numbers in the last message) with a small piece of his breast showing.  There is too much gold, I think.  Shouldn\'t his muffs and beard be black also?  The original sire\'s are black.  

[Mike Gilbert]

Yes, and yes.   But how were the mother(s) colored?   If they were buff, I would not be surprised at the color of cockerel #1.   But #2 looks like a throwback as he is colored more like a black tailed buff or a black tailed red.   I think in the end we will find the proper color for the male muffs will be prodominantly black, but with some gold mixed in.    Since I only breed from one trio each year, I am just as slow to learn about this color as anyone else, just been doing it longer than most.

Mike G.