The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
Red Coloring Poll
Cesar “CJ”:
On another forum, a picture was posted of Bantams Red Ameruacanas. They were created by Jim Tuckwood 10 years ago and no one knows what exactly happened to them.
This got me thinking of how to create a Red Ameraucana, and what type of Red coloring would be desired to see on a possible Red Ameraucana?
The foundation is there with Buff and Wheaten, since (RC) Rhode Island Reds and Buckeyes (Pea Comb) share the same extension gene Wheaten (eWh) and Im believing Red Orpingtons do as well. Also Red Orpington gives you the white skin needed for slate legs, but single comb. With RIR and Buckeyes you would have to worry about the recessive yellow skin gene.
Again this is just a hypothetical scenario, its something Ive been thinking about for a couple of years and recently because of the bantam pictures made me think about it again.
Don:
Cesar, I have never seen the red orps but the picture you had looks pretty good. I don't have a preference for the color between the three. The project would take some time, maybe many years. In addition to combs and egg color it would take some major breeding programs to get them to be the right type and body size. I might guess that any of those breed crosses would create a very heavy bantam as Hybrids usually get in influx of size.
I can't see what color is in the tail of the Orp, but I imagine that you are talking about a Black tailed Red? And you would want to research the genetic makeup of the bloodlines you were trying to use. For discussion, I've read where the Buff and Wheaten are based on dominate Wheaten, but the RIR is based on recessive Wheaten. (Pure Red with no Black is based on eb) You would need to pick up the Mahogany and Columbian and breed out the Champagne (blonde) color. You could decide whether or not you wanted black in the hackle. This would determine how many doses of Co you needed, right? Buff theoretically has more than you need, but I've seen Black tailed Buff lines developed out of pure Buffs too.
From my few years of working with buff LF, I have seen males come much darker than what you want for Buff. Some tending toward red in a big way. Especially when there has been a cross between Wheaten and Buff. But I am not sure if you can get to the RIR color without an outcross. The dark color like in the RIR would take some time for sure. You might have more trouble getting the females dark though. Most of the lines seem to have females lighter anyway. But time would tell. It might just take a lot of time and feed.
Birdcrazy:
Would this project also include LF? I feel it needs to keep the balance we have as in our other ABA and APA recognized varieties.
Cesar “CJ”:
--- Quote from: Don on January 19, 2016, 02:16:42 PM ---Cesar, I have never seen the red orps but the picture you had looks pretty good. I don't have a preference for the color between the three. The project would take some time, maybe many years. In addition to combs and egg color it would take some major breeding programs to get them to be the right type and body size. I might guess that any of those breed crosses would create a very heavy bantam as Hybrids usually get in influx of size.
I can't see what color is in the tail of the Orp, but I imagine that you are talking about a Black tailed Red? And you would want to research the genetic makeup of the bloodlines you were trying to use. For discussion, I've read where the Buff and Wheaten are based on dominate Wheaten, but the RIR is based on recessive Wheaten. (Pure Red with no Black is based on eb) You would need to pick up the Mahogany and Columbian and breed out the Champagne (blonde) color. You could decide whether or not you wanted black in the hackle. This would determine how many doses of Co you needed, right? Buff theoretically has more than you need, but I've seen Black tailed Buff lines developed out of pure Buffs too.
From my few years of working with buff LF, I have seen males come much darker than what you want for Buff. Some tending toward red in a big way. Especially when there has been a cross between Wheaten and Buff. But I am not sure if you can get to the RIR color without an outcross. The dark color like in the RIR would take some time for sure. You might have more trouble getting the females dark though. Most of the lines seem to have females lighter anyway. But time would tell. It might just take a lot of time and feed.
--- End quote ---
Don, I was thinking of doing LF first. I think a single cross with one of them will get that red right away and I was thinking of breeding to buff or wheaten then line breeding to keep the pea comb and egg color going. I conisdered using a Rose Comb Rhode island red to get Pea Comb again quick. And buckeyes of course have pea combs already. All I would have to worry about would be the recessive yellow skin.
Jean:
Cesar,
I would not recommend using a rose comb. The pea comb is more dominant over the single comb whereas if you breed a pea and a rosecomb they can both express and you get a cushion comb. Much easier to remove a single comb in the line.
I was considering the red project also, but that will be down the road once the chocolates are done. You always want to use the ameraucana male in your outcross to keep as much of your egg color as possible.
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