Training for show (the bird and me)

[Dan Pitts]

I've looked for this topic on here, and can't find one, so I hope I'm not posting a redundant thread.
A few of you have suggested that my black cockerel be shown. I find myself making excuses for why I don't have time, but if I'm honest with myself the biggest thing holding me back is my reluctance to take the time to cage train a bird. I work daylight until dark 5 days/week, but I doubt that many of you are independently wealthy from selling day old chicks, so I assume you guys have the same struggles with time.
I have read the cage training chapter of Storey's Guide many times, and that seems to be a good way to go, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about starting. My cockerel is 9 months old, not aggressive, but also not hand tame. He has always been in the pen with the flock, and for the last few months with his own girls. I envision going into the pen and cornering him to catch him, and having him fear me to start off the relationship. If I am only able to do this on the weekends, I'm afraid that the 5 days of me not being around will be time enough for him to forget any training, and be scared of me again the following Saturday.
Do you guys have any tips for starting the process?

[Dan Pitts]

Also, feel free to move this if I posted it in the wrong place

[Don]

Dan,  People go about this in all different ways.  Most of us don't have all the time in the world like you said.  If you put them in a smaller coop it helps to get them comfortable to being approached more closely. Something in the 2' square range will work well for LF.  If it is raised up about desk height that will prepare them for some of the show situations.  Then you just approach them as many times a day as you can with feed and treats.  Just get them to be more comfortable with you is the goal.  Get the to see you as a source of feed rather than being scared when you open the door.  I would give him a full days ration of feed each day when you are working during the week.  On the weekends you can take away the feed Friday night and bring him feed several times a day.  Take him out of the cage and hold him in one hand.  Spread his wings and and look at each of the feathers.  Hold his head and look at both sides of the comb, eyes and muffs.  Turn him to look at his feet and legs.  He will be very reluctant at first, and will probably not look forward to this part of the experiment.  But the goal is to get him to be more comfortable when the judge does similar inspections.  Try to put him back in the cage when without too much struggling.  This will reassure him that you mean no harm and next time will not be as nervous. 

To start you can go out after dark and pick him up off the perch.  Place him in his coop and he will have the early morning to explore this new cage before you upset him again.  This will cause less frustration for both of you.     

[Dan Pitts]

Thanks, Don. I had thought about taking him off the roost, but you are talking about keeping him in the coop for an extended period of time. That makes sense, but he is my breeder (if his fertility is up), so I don't really want to separate him from the girls. Don't you think it would be a better idea for me to try and make a few shows this year as a spectator, then possibly separate him later, or possibly use his offspring as show birds? For you guys that show regularly, are the show birds kept separate from the breeder flock? I do have the space for separate pens.

[Birdcrazy]

For you guys that show regularly, are the show birds kept separate from the breeder flock? I do have the space for separate pens.

Dan, I seldom show birds from my breeding pens as feather condition can be a problem. It seems cocks and cockerels are prone to tail feather damage, and hens and pullets back, head, and neck feather damage. I do let my male birds run with the females all the time. Perhaps if I only let the cocks stay in the pen for a short time and remove them and reinsert them a few days later and remove them off and on, this might help on feather condition. Another factor may be many of my breeding pen runs are only 3' X 8-10'.

[Don]

Dan, I think everyone has this dilemma especially in the spring or early winter when they are looking forward to showing.  And not everyone is able or interested in keeping tons of birds, some for show and some for breeding.  So when you decide to show, you will need to work around the issues.  They will damage feathers or even further if left in the breeding pens together for long.  The hens are known to pick beards and muffs. The males will ruin the hens backs, even causing great sores on their sides if not careful.  And that's not to mention just feather breakage.  But if you are like many of us, you have to devise some way to do both at the same time. 

Some people find that the males are just too rough on the hens if left in the breeding pens all season.  So once they have consistent fertile eggs, you can remove the males to a show coop for most of the week.  This gives you time to calm and train him and protects him from damaging feathers.  Let him visit with each of the hens for about 15-30 mins a couple times a week.  This will be enough to keep her fertile and her eggs will be good to hatch as long as you keep the routine.  It also keeps the hens in better shape too.  I have done this with bantam and LF at different times and it has worked well.   I had a LF White Ply Rock years ago that was so badly damaged by the male that her hips were bleeding.  I removed her and kept her by herself.  She was a great show bird and by herself she stayed clean with nice silvery feathers.  She healed over the next few weeks and I still hatched her eggs all season.   

[Dan Pitts]

Thanks guys. I know full well what treading does to hens, that's why I haven't even had a thought of showing a girl. The black cockerel is my best bird, but I need him to keep boosting the flock right now. Given all of that information, I think what I will do is try to make a few shows as a spectator this year. I would really like to see what these other birds look like in person. Keeping show birds separate would be the best solution for me. When my first generation grows out, if I have any that I feel could be held out for show, I have the space and material to make more pens.
Thanks for the replies

[Susan Mouw]

Ok, now I'm going to offer one tip that I do with my birds as they are growing out.

From the time they are in the brooder box to the grow out pens outside, I hand fed them raisins.

The first time or two, I'll have to toss a raisin or two in their midst, but it doesn't take them long to figure out that raisins are really nice treats!  Once they've figured it out, the rule is that they have to come get the raisin out of my hand - no more tossing it in the pen or the brooder box.

It doesn't take very long of that for them to decide that every time they see me coming to come rushing to the door! 

This doesn't help with later handling - that is a separate process - but it does one very important thing - teach them that people coming up to the cage or pen might be bringing treats and it is a good idea to pay attention. So, they are front and center, bright eyed and alert, when the judge comes by.

[Dan Pitts]

Ok, now I'm going to offer one tip that I do with my birds as they are growing out.

From the time they are in the brooder box to the grow out pens outside, I hand fed them raisins.

The first time or two, I'll have to toss a raisin or two in their midst, but it doesn't take them long to figure out that raisins are really nice treats!  Once they've figured it out, the rule is that they have to come get the raisin out of my hand - no more tossing it in the pen or the brooder box.

It doesn't take very long of that for them to decide that every time they see me coming to come rushing to the door! 

This doesn't help with later handling - that is a separate process - but it does one very important thing - teach them that people coming up to the cage or pen might be bringing treats and it is a good idea to pay attention. So, they are front and center, bright eyed and alert, when the judge comes by.

I forgot about the raisins! My chickens love raisins. Great idea.
I know a lot of you guys are able to make some culls at hatch, but I'm not that far along yet. Are you able to pick out the exceptional chicks at hatch as well? There is one of my 7 that hatched this weekend that just looks different than the rest. It's a little bigger, but the coloring just looks so right. Very dark blue with a beautiful, full blonde muff. It's the best looking of the chicks, but I don't know if that's because maybe some develop more in the shells, or if that's an indication that it's a keeper

[Susan Mouw]

I forgot about the raisins! My chickens love raisins. Great idea.
I know a lot of you guys are able to make some culls at hatch, but I'm not that far along yet. Are you able to pick out the exceptional chicks at hatch as well? There is one of my 7 that hatched this weekend that just looks different than the rest. It's a little bigger, but the coloring just looks so right. Very dark blue with a beautiful, full blonde muff. It's the best looking of the chicks, but I don't know if that's because maybe some develop more in the shells, or if that's an indication that it's a keeper

I forgot about one thing - when they are really are really young, I use oatmeal - just old fashioned oatmeal that you get in the grocery store - as a treat until they're old enough to eat raisins.

The only time I will cull a chick is if it has a obvious serious fault or disqualification - eg, duck foot, etc.  I would never cull for color until they are older. 

[Cesar “CJ”]

For you guys that show regularly, are the show birds kept separate from the breeder flock? I do have the space for separate pens.

Dan, I seldom show birds from my breeding pens as feather condition can be a problem. It seems cocks and cockerels are prone to tail feather damage, and hens and pullets back, head, and neck feather damage. I do let my male birds run with the females all the time. Perhaps if I only let the cocks stay in the pen for a short time and remove them and reinsert them a few days later and remove them off and on, this might help on feather condition. Another factor may be many of my breeding pen runs are only 3' X 8-10'.

Have you thought about AI? That way your females dont get torn up by males

[Birdcrazy]

Cesar, I haven't used AI. I seldom show in spring shows since there are few in our surrounding area. I usually rotate my winners from late summer and fall shows to the breeding pens the next spring. It seems I always have excess older cocks along with a few younger cockerels that I could always find something to keep out to show. I have on occasion kept out a pullet or two separate from my breeding pens for show  birds. I usually stop setting eggs the 1st week in June so I can always pull hens out for late fall showing. The problem I face is after getting birds back in feather and you think you are good, here comes an early moulting. This is not unique to these hens but all of the flock. Sometime it's a scramble at the last minute to replace the birds I had intended on showing and entered with others in better feather.