Leg color in chicks

[Guest]

Does leg color in chicks change? I have a flock of blue and black birds that I am hatching from. I have noticed the leg color in the chicks has some yellow. This is mostly on the bottom of the feet. It is also hard to tell if the chick\'s have a willow or a slate color to them. Should I cull now or wait?
Thanks for any help.

[Guest]

How old are the chicks?
  There is a chance that the color could change, but most likely not.  It has been my experience that the yellow stays....unfortunately....but I\'ld keep em for a while...just in case.

[faith valley]

Wheaten and blue wheatens hatch with yellowish legs that turn to the slate at about 3 weeks.  I definetly would hold onto them for a while.

~Patty~

[Guest]

Patty\'s right....
  I\'ve had wheatons hatch with pink shanks, and turn slate later.  But, my blues & blacks that hatch with a yellow tint on the foot pads usually stay that way....Don\'t know why.  

[Guest]

It is my understanding, the blacks can have black shanks and the other 7 color varieties are supposed to have slate shanks.  It is also my understanding of chicken anatomy that a shank is the scaled portion of the leg down to the foot.  Feet are allowed to be yellow or flesh toned.

Here are a couple examples of this:

http://ameraucana.org/scrapbook_files/blueb.jpg
http://www.cimarronvalleyfarms.com/images/Chick_LF_Black1.jpg

Some chicks are born with willow or yellow legs.  They acquire the slate after some period of time (varies).

[Guest]

The chicks are about 3 weeks old and less.

[Guest]

Wesley,
  According to the 1998 edition of the Standard of Perfection: Black Ameraucanas Shanks and toes to be very dark slate to black, bottoms of feed and toes white.
Blue Ameraucanas  Shanks to be dark slate, bottoms of feet and toes to be white.
  I have had birds disqualified for having a slight yellowish tinge to the pads of the feet.  Even with slate shanks.  Yellow bad, white good!  LOL
  Keep em for a while, and see if the yellow fades.

[John]

Yellow bad, white good!

Amen!
No yellow on the feet or shanks is allowed no matter the age.  Just make sure it is yellow, not the lighting or stains on the soles/pads, and then cull.

Wheaten and blue wheatens hatch with yellowish legs

Some chicks are born with willow or yellow legs.

Genetically they are not yellow or willow, although they may appear to be willowish for the first several weeks.  Still the pads/soles should always be white or pinkish.  Recessive wheaten doesn\'t let the desired slate color to show in chicks.  It changes (or should) with age.
As I recall we voted to allow slate to black legs/shanks on blue and brown red also.  Maybe it will be in a revised Standard?  

[Guest]

I am going to look closer when I get home. These are adults  from a very known breeder in the Club. Is it possible for this trait to show up in any breeders birds or would this have been a trait that should have been culled. All the adult breeders have the correct leg color.

[John]

I sold a LF blue pair this year and the buyer hatched 4 chicks.  She said all four have yellow pads/soles.  The leg and foot color on the parents is according to the Standard and I\'ve checked all my young LF blacks and blues.  Some of them may have come from this same hen and/or cock, but their colors are correct.  Recessive genes can pop up.  In breeding LF blacks and blues for 15 to 20 years I have never bred to a bird with yellow or willow legs or feet.  I don\'t check their foot color when they hatch, because I wasn\'t aware these genes were even present in these varieties.  Years ago a member in Ohio bred his LF \"Ameraucanas\" with yellow legs, because he preferred them that way.  I didn\'t use any of his birds in developing mine.  Trap nesting each breeder would be the only way I know of to completely eliminate the problem.  
Another breeder of the same varieties said about 1% of his chicks have yellow pads.

[Guest]

Can someone provide a synonym for the willow color?  For example, sage could be considered green.  Or mauve a form of purple.  Or turquoise a form of blue or green depending on the area the stone came from.

[Guest]

Some chicks are born with willow or yellow legs.  They acquire the slate after some period of time (varies).

In this statement, I\'m using willow and yellow interchangebly as the same.  I\'ve always considered willow to be a dingy yellow.  Not the bright yellow that you would find on a White Leghorn, for example, but more of a mottled, dingy yellowish, greenish, slatish look.  Sort of a blend of yellow, green, and slate together.

Does somebody have a different definition of willow?

[Guest]

willow is a color description based on the willow tree. the tree has is a light yellowish greenish bark on it\'s branches, therfore willow is a light greenish-yellowish color, hard to describe any other way..but I tend to also call the ones with darker green \"willow\" or green legged, and the lighter ones with distinct yellow, \"willow\" or yellow legged, so it is easy to get confused as the the exact shades, but all are generally conciderd as \"willow\".
we tend to have a problem with the willow showing up, mainly because our fondation stock was hatchery easter eggers, that had willow leggs..even after many generations, with much improved breeding, the willow will still pop up, even from nice legged parents...it is perhaps the hardest flaw to breed out, and who knows? it may well never be totally gone
I am sure to tell folks this as I don\'t want them surprised when their very nice birds start producing some not so mice chicks.

One thing I learned in birds, way more so than anyother animal I raised, it is extreemly hard to get a nice showable baby from the parents, even nice show birds!! the ratio is not so good. the best bet is to hatch in large numbers to get a few choice birds to show.
{this is not just for Ameraucanas, ALL breeds tend to have this problem}

[John]

willow and yellow interchangeably

They are not the same, but yellow is present in willow.
Keep in mind the shank color comes from the colors of both the dermis and epidermis, plus other genes that can be involved (but we won\'t go there).  The colors or lack of them in these two layers together make the shank color.
Here is the way Jeffrey charts shank/leg color, on page 22, of BANTAM CHICKENS:

Shank             Dermis         Epidermis
white                   none            none
yellow                 yellow           yellow
green (willow)      black             yellow
blue                     black            none
slate (light black)  none            black
horn                     none             horn
black                    black            black

I am not familiar with horn, but the rest are ones that I have had to deal with.

[Guest]

OK, so everyone considers willow and yellow as two separate colors.  That\'s fine.  I just lumped them together as both \"yellow colored\", or yellow.

My real point wasn\'t really a debate on willow color, but that the colors do sometimes change.  My blacks with the flesh-toned toes turn completely black by the second or third week.