Dark, dark blue cockerel with green sheen.....

[Jean]

Someone dropped off a blue cockerel at the feedstore that sold my chicks this spring and left him there.  He is obviously one of my offspring.  There is no one that raises these birds in 100 mile radius of me.  I went ahead and brought him home since he was abandoned and I felt resposible for him since I brought him into the world.

Anyway he is beautiful!  He is one of those dark dark blues with good conformation, nice lacing, nice disposition almost the total package.  

I am tempted to keep him for breeding, except he has green sheen and one white toenail.

So, all you genetics pros, tell me what the pros and cons are to keeping this guy.  What are the odds of him passing the green sheen on to his blue offspring?  Do you think he has the sheen because he is so dark?

Thanks,

Jean

[John]

Do you think he has the sheen because he is so dark?

Yes.  I don\'t know what the experts will say, but he looks to be clear bluish slate where he should be and the feathers are laced in black as they should be.  The black lacing is where the green sheen is and I don\'t see green in the blue/slate areas of the feathers.  The Standard says \"black\" lacing, but it doesn\'t mention if it should be a dull or greenish black.  I wouldn\'t think twice about using him.
Want don\'t you like about white toes nails?

[Mike Gilbert]

Blue is highly variable as to shade of color.   I would not hesitate to use him if he is a nice bird otherwise.   The standard is silent as regards toenail color for Ameraucanas.

[Jean]

As to toenail color, under cutting for defects, poultry with black legs are not to have white toenails, it\'s a deduction in points, not a DQ.

If I can get my slate legged black variety going, this will not be a problem for me.  I have decided it is a trait that I want to breed for in my flock.  

Jean

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean,
Right you are.   The Ameraucana standard originally called for slate or dark slate shanks on blacks, but someone decided that would be too difficult and wanted it changed to include black legs, so that\'s what happened.    I always have an uneasy feeling whenever we change the original standard, and this situation confirms that we should be very, very careful.   That said, unless a bird is being considered for best of show I doubt that one white toenail would make too much difference under normal circumstances to most judges.     Another problem in the large fowl blacks that I have observed from time to time is the prevalence of dark brown eyes instead of the required bay eyes (reddish brown).      Goes to show that, even in solid color birds there is always something to work on for improvement.

[Guest]

It would be difficult to breed a quality blue or black chicken that did not have black legs. The genes that cause them to be black adds black pigment to the legs. A person could make a black bird using eb or the brown gene but the bird has to have alot of additional melanizers and will sometimes show a few red or silver feathers. The best gene for making a black bird is the extended black gene and that gene adds melanin to the skin causing black legs. You can also use the birchen gene to build a black bird but the bird would also need to inherit some melanin inhancers. Birchen will also add melanin to the skin of a bird.

Tim

[Jean]

I have three black hens with slate legs right now.  I had one good cockerel out of them with slate legs.  He is at another home now, but if I want to use him next year I can.

I don\'t know how they were bred, but I purchased them from McKinney Poultry last year.  One of them won BOC and BOB at the fair last year when Jeannette was the judge.

I will probably use him on some of my hens next year and if any of the offspring have slate legs I will be keeping them.

Jean

[John]

BOC and BOB

Sometimes people use BOB when they mean BB.  BOB means Best Opposite sex of Breed and BB means Best of Breed.  I don\'t see BOB used very often, so am wondering if that is what you meant or was it BB.  
I don\'t know what BOC means, but maybe it was a typo for BOV(?).  The keys are close.
AOC means Any (or All) other color(s).  

[Mike Gilbert]

I\'ll just add one comment.   Difficult does not mean impossible.   Solid colored birds like black or white are much easier to breed for feather color than are parti-colored birds.    My feeling is there actually should be difficulty in breeding exhibition quality birds, as it provides more of a challenge.   It also lends the opportunity for a breeder to put into practice what he or she may have learned.   Jean, I would certainly encourage you to develop a strain of slate legged blacks;  that\'s the way they were envisioned back when we started out with this breed.

[Jean]

Sorry, about my abbreviations, I\'ve only shown once and I apparently got them wrong.  What I meant was my black pullet won Best of Breed and Best of Class.  

My buff cockerel won Reserve Breed and Best Variety and my buff pullet won Reserve Variety with a little comment, \"nice color\".

I am taking six chickens to the fair on Tuesday.  They have all been doing their cage training and I will be checking them tomorrow morning to see if I need to dust them and Tuesday morning I will be washing them up and applying some oil.  (just legs, combs and faces)

I am pretty excited about my birds, I think I have some more great birds to show again.

Jean

[Guest]

Jean, would you mind posting a full shot? (I\'m curious about lacing and all it\'s variations.)  Does he have lacing all over his body? Do you think he carries gold or silver? Do you think he is E or ER? Does he have white undercolor (I may se a little in the first shot).

[John]

green sheen

I was going thru the birds the other day and have a bantam blue cockerel that looks the same.  The color looks good to me.

[Jean]

He has no white on him, that is just the undercolor of light blue showing through.

I do not know what color genes he carries.  He is out of a blue rooster I bought from Lisa Cree last year and either one of her blue hens or a black hen from McKinney.

I made sure my roo from Lisa did not have any gold in the hackles.  My hens do not so I do not know if there are any gold or silver genes, they are not expressed.  And E or Er???

I will put his photos on the ABC Shareing Place photo album since we don\'t have enough space here to load them.

Jean

[bantamhill]

The color looks very nice . . . if the confirmation on this cockerel is good (or better yet very good) I would use him for a long time. His parents would be important to keep for future breeding use. His father over the best of his sisters and this cockerel over his mother, or if you prefer flock breed the group and run him over the entire flock and rotate.

Michael

[Guest]

THANKS!