Help, disease or infection from injury????

[Jean]

I noticed one of my white pullets had a watery eye yesterday.  I immediately pulled her from the flock and put her in a cage by herself.

The only symptoms is that one eye is watery and today it looks like it is bubbling.  There is no mucus in the nostrils, she is eating and drinking and the other eye is clear.

At first I thought maybe she injured her eye on some chicken wire or on raspberry bushes, but the bubbling is concerning.

Anyone out there have any thoughts.

Thanks,

Jean

[Mike Gilbert]

Most likely a mycoplasma related symtom, as they seem to be most everywhere.   I believe it can be spread by wild birds, but someone correct me if I\'m wrong.   Most fanciers I know try to breed for resistance and make sure their birds avoid stress.   Too hot, too cold, too crowded, etc all induce stress.   It can be treated with certain antibiotics, but I\'m not convinced it\'s worth it.   I had a rooster with similar symtoms last winter, and as soon as I noticed it he was culled.   That was the end of it.

[Paul]

 Jean,
  It sounds like LT to me.  The bubbling eyes are one of the first warning signs.  The virus gets stronger as it passes from flock to flock.  The top illness causing bleeding from the mouth.  First State Vet Supply has the correct LT vaccine to use.  It is an eye drop which should be used in the nostril at 4 weeks and again at 10 weeks of age.

[John]

As Mike said it sounds like some form of MG/CRD or perhaps Coryza.  There are some anti-biotics to help bring them thru it and vaccines are available for many diseases.  Some are passed to chicks thru the eggs and others aren\'t.  
Last year I lost many young birds to it or something similar.  They were all fine until the weather turned cold and wet for a few days.  The birds got stressed and many didn\'t recover.  I culled many dozens as those same symptoms, that you describe, appeared while trying to keep their bedding dry.  They were also sneezing.  I added anti-biotics to their water for 14 days and then switched to vitamins/electrolytes and then back to anti-biotics.  I should have started up some heat lamps when the weather changed, but thought the birds were old enough.  They were old enough if it were just the colder temps for a few days, but mixed with the wetness from the rain it was too much stress for many.  I didn\'t have any birds tested to find out what it was, because the birds that showed symptoms were culled and from my experience know that there is usually more than one disease or virus present.
Having given you my sad little story I will say that I\'m not the expert and always suggest you also post these type questions on Peter Brown\'s forum at FeatherFanciers.com.    

[Jean]

Peter has not checked in on the forum for a couple weeks now and is rumored to have some health problems.

My pullet is not sneezing, so I am very confused.  I do not have any new stock on the farm except the chicks I have hatched from imported eggs from other breeders.  The only diseases that I know that can be passed through the egg is MS and MG.

I put some vet rx in the eye tonight and sprayed myself down with oxine.  I will see if it clears up as the other eye is bright and shiny and she jumped right to her food and water when I was done.  I\'ll give her a couple of days in the cage and see what happens.  

Maybe Peter will come back and we can figure out what this is.

Jean

[Paul]

  Now, that I have some more time to share more about LT or Laryngotracheitis.  The bubbling eyes are the first sign.  Next the infected birds will gasp for their breath.  They will stretch their neck forward & upward with each breath as their larynx and trachea inter lining cells die and slough off.  They may pass blood through their nose and mouth in advanced stages.  Their eye socket may contain a hard white growth.  A large percentage will die.
  I highly recommend  vaccinating with the \"LT-IVAX\" vaccine.  It is intended to be dropped in the chicks eye at four and again at 10 weeks of age, but it is best dropped into the nostril, because in the eye, will cause some chicks to get an eye infection.  The mature flock needs to be revaccinated every year with two vaccinations 6 weeks apart.  All birds need to be vaccinated at least 35 days before going to a show or being around unvaccinated birds.
  Unfortunately there is usually some LT at the shows and it is highly contagious to unvaccinated birds.  There is a type of LT vaccine called CEO (chick embryo orgin)- it should not be used in any breeding show flock.  It is designed for commercial flocks where they are all in then all out and never around any other birds.
  I hope this info helps many poultry breeders to get on an LT vaccination program.

[John]

get on an LT vaccination program

I agree with Paul that all exhibitors should vaccinate against LT.
I don\'t think your bird has LT from the description, but a Q-Tip in the roof of the birds mouth is a test that I have used.  If it comes out with blood on it I would suspect LT.  LT is a herpes type virus (like a cold sore) that will be dormant then flares up, from stress, to run it\'s course.

[Anne Foley]

My vote goes for a Mycoplasma infection.  They are interesting organisms that are neither virus nor bacteria.  They are indigenous in the wild turkey population.  It is easily treatable.  Tylan made by Elanco Animal Health (a division of Eli Lilly) works well and quickly.  Active ingredient is tylosin.   In a mild case, one day is enough.  I think the version made to add to the drinking water is easiest but some people like to inject.  As they are not bacteria, most traditional antibiotics do not work against Mycoplasma.

[Guest]

And so for my story ... had a young pullet I had just moved into her adult flock (along with 5 others in her group) start looking somewhat listless one day, the next I noticed she was salivating and now not eatting/drinking. So through the weekend, I forcefed her electrolytes and rinsed her mouth and thoat with soapy water, finally found a University Vet to come look at her Tuesday evening (can you believe I\'m in the absolute heart of chicken country and no vet \"does\" chickens?). All along she actually seemed \"not ill\", just not active. So Tuesday afternoon I get home from work and find her running around, eating, drinking and a large bloody piece of gravel on the floor of the coop she had passed with aide from the soapy water!
I thoughly understand the need to vacinate, medicate, isolate
 entire farms when showing and moving animals, but the general rule of thumb for indication of sickeness and requireing treatment are 1)temperature, 2)drinking, 3)eating, 4)weightloss. Do you show?

[Jean]

Well,

I\'ll just say I\'m as confused as I was the other day.  Bird still has bubbling in the one eye, no other symptoms.  Is still eating, pooping, drinking and wants out of the cage.  I am going to put some eye ointment in tomorrow.

I know I have MS on the property as I have tested for it and MG and the MG was negative: this is not my strain of MS as I know the symptoms.  If I should have an outbreak and I have Tylan on hand, it\'s one of those things I keep in my poultry medicine cabinet.

Barbara, I do show, but the last time I was at a show was last September.  This pullet is only 16-18 weeks old and has not had contact with the birds that went to show.  Every year all my babies get to grow up \"free range\" in my garden and the adults are kept in houses.

I will vaccinate for LT before I go to the show this fall in MT now that I know about it.  I think that there are some diseases that are more prevalent in the midwest and in the south that we do not get up here in the Pacific Northwest.

I may take a blood sample and send it to the avian health lab and have them check for MG, LT, CRD and choryza (sp?).  I don\'t have any diseases in my mind that I think it could be.

Thanks for all the input.

Jean

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean,
Coryza has a smelly exudate.   I was at a show the first Saturday of June, and I could smell it emanating from some birds on exhibition from the aisle.   If you don\'t notice the smell I doubt if that is the problem.     Like I said earlier, I believe the Mycoplasma organism can be brought in by wild birds, and so I\'ll stick with my original guess.   But please do let us know what the results of the tests are.   If you plan to vaccinate for LT, be sure it is at least 6  weeks ahead of the show;  otherwise your birds could be carriers and spread it to unvaccinated birds at the show.   I do not vaccinate for LT as have had no need for it for many years.   Thanks and good luck.

[Jean]

I talked to Peter Brown aka \"The Chicken Doctor\" today, and he thinks this is just some kind of bacterial infection since the chicken has not gotten worse and it has been about a week.

I flushed her nasal cavity with oxine today and removed some of the crust from the discharge around the eye and she still seems healthy otherwise.  Again I checked for swelling and there was none.  Once I cleaned and examined the area I am thinking she may have cut the skin on her lower eye lid and that is what has caused this problem.

I will be putting her on an antibiotic as soon as it gets here.

I am also going to vaccinate for LT in a few weeks.  There is also a vaccine for coryza and IB; so I am poundering the costs of vaccinating for these diseases.

Jean

[John]

birds could be carriers and spread it to unvaccinated birds at the show

I beleive that is true of the more powerful vaccine, but not the milder one that is administered twice - six weeks apart.
 

LT-IVAX® is a live virus vaccine containing a carefully selected fowl laryngotracheitis virus strain modified by passage in tissue culture. Because of the highly modified character of this vaccine, it does not offer the same degree of protection usually obtained from more virulent products. The vaccine contains a very mild attenuated virus and there is no danger of seeding down the premises with laryngotracheitis virus which can spread and cause the disease. The vaccine contains gentamicin as a preservative.

[Jean]

Thanks for the info, John.  That is the one I was going to purchase from First State Vet Supply.

I flushed my chicken\'s eye one more time and let her out the next day.  I was going to give her a day without flushing and then flush again, but it was not necessary.  She is now bright eyed and bushy tailed!

She went right out and joined up with her hatch mates and everything is ok in her world again.  

Jean

[angora831]

Jean,
  It sounds like LT to me.  The bubbling eyes are one of the first warning signs.  The virus gets stronger as it passes from flock to flock.  The top illness causing bleeding from the mouth.  First State Vet Supply has the correct LT vaccine to use.  It is an eye drop which should be used in the nostril at 4 weeks and again at 10 weeks of age.

I have a question on this application for LT.  The instructions that come with the vaccination tell us to put a drop in the bird\'s eye and wait until it swallows.  It would seem that putting it in the nostril will get the job done quicker and administer the dose at the same time.  Is this true or do we have to put the drop in the eye?

Thanks,
Ken