Fm in Amer.

[Guest]

You may know I am working on a mottled project with some success (that is if you do not count the horrible losses I\'ve had to racoons). One area they need improvement on is in eye & shank coloration; the mottle gene dilutes dermal melanin. Some black chicks from April  had what appeared to be E down, some ER down. Now comes the interesting part: a few of the ER downed pullets have the most beautiful navy blue shanks, BLUE SOLES, and purple face. Now I have asked a few \"who might know\" to look at the photos and tell me if they might be carrying Fm, and they have guessed \"yes\" and have suggested that Fm is more common throughout many breeds than is commonly thought
Obviously I will be breeding these to a homozygous mottle cockerel to see if this could be a way to help darken the pigmentation. Has anyone else seen this in their flock?

[Guest]

including a shot I have of the inhibited dermal (but not epidermal) melanin

and hen with Fm(?)

[grisaboy]

Hello Rose,

Interesting project.  Where did the mottle genes come from?
I have birchen modern games (E^R).  They are supposed to have mulberry (purple) faces.  I don\'t think this is the same as Fm though.  
I have seen reports of South American Araucana Precursors that have dark skin like silkies.
I have a few lavender pullets that have purplish faces.  I will see if I can get a photo this weekend.

Curtis

[John]

Dark bluish/purple combs appeared a few years ago in my LF and maybe it was the blacks/blues, but don\'t remember for sure.  I didn\'t breed from them, but if the gene is recessive it may still be in my breeders and manifest itself from time to time.  I don\'t think any chicks had it this year, but after hatching almost 1,500 I could be wrong.  
Some of my bantam lavenders, with walnut combs, looked like they had very dark combs.  I think all of the pea combed chicks had nice red combs.
My LF blacks were developed from LF Australop pullets (McMurry chicks) and a medium sized white Ameraucana male (Jerry Segler stock) many years ago.  This same cock was used in making LF whites, buffs and perhaps blues as I recall, using Orpington pullet chicks from McMurry.
Other crosses have been made since with each variety.  In the blacks though I think the only cross was with an exhibition Australop cockerel from Jim Fegan.  I\'ve assumed the blacks were E/E, but have started my LF brown reds a few years back using what appeared to be a fairly nice brown red pullet that just happened from my LF blacks.  I crossed a brown red bantam male from Mike Gilbert over her.  It appears my LF blacks/blues may be E/E and/or E/E^R.  

[Jean]

I have had several birds this year with the black face/combs.  They all appear to be pullets.

I am going out on a limb here and going to say it is from my black rooster/hens with the slate legs.  As some of you may remember I am really working on a black flock with slate legs.  

I have had a couple here and there pop up the last two years, but it seems to be more prevelant this year as I have been breeding specifically for that trait.

Jean

PS I have no clue what the Fm refers to.  Just thought I would share my experience.

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean,
When you say you have been \"breeding specifically for that trait\" I assume you mean slate legs, not dark combs?   Have you been breeding from any with the dark combs (I realize they turn redder when they mature)?     If not, then whatever gene is causing the darker heads must be recessive.    If you have been breeding from the dark heads (either male or female but not both) then it is a dominant gene, and therefore easy to eliminate.   If, on the other hand, you have been breeding from both males and females with the darker heads the gene could be either dominant or recessive.   It\'s those pesky unwanted recessive genes that are difficult to eliminate once they get a foothold.  

[Guest]

Fm is Fibromelanosis and it colors the connective tissues and causes the dark skin of Silkies, for instance. I guess it can manifest throughout the body and not always the skin and is Dominant Severala people have commented that they did not know a bird was carrying this gene (in some form) until upon butchering they found the dark pigments tissues/bone.
Would any of you have the time to look at the soles and see if your purple/dark faces have dark soles too? Thanks.
I\'m not sure where my mottle gene came from. I had a pair of speckled sussex 12 yrs ago, and the roo was not around for long but he must have sired a black hen.  I started getting white base to feathers, mostly on the tail, on my blue roo after his 2 yr. molt; the pattern of which changed with each molt. Researching what this could be last year, I discovered that a breeder indicated this was an expression of heterozygous mo+. Now there are plenty of people who do not believe this, but it sure has proven to be true for me. I do believe the fact that this recessive gene expresses may have something to do with either the e-loci or the absence of other modifiers... fun stuff.

[Jean]

Mike, I am breeding for the slate legs.  I didn\'t notice if my hens had dark combs/faces.  Of course they look pink to me now.

Barbara, I have blue and black pullets with the dark combs.  The bottoms of the feet are ..... white.  I had to run out and catch a couple of them to make sure.  I don\'t keep any for breeding if their soles are not white.

Since I have noticed that it seems to be on pullets only, could we assume that in my case it may be sex-linked?

Jean

[John]

Fm

FM (Frequency Modulation)is dominate to AM (Amplitude Modulation), but in the old days AM was dominate.

[Jean]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

I guess this late at night some things seem funnier than others.

Jean

[Guest]

Well, if any of you find any with dark soles talk to me ...

[Guest]

I had one hatch that is overmelanized black and appears to be a pullet. The soles of her feet look darker to me. I am going to keep her and use her for a few test hatches with Roosters from different lines to see what I can find out.

She also has a dark face and comb as she is only about 3 months old  

[John]

Also check out the related Gypsy Face topic...
http://ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=1542

[Guest]

Thanks for the info John, not much on that link though.

Does anyone know if a bird can be a carrier of this gene and not show the mulberry face and comb?

My hen is beautiful and so dark with a lovely green sheen to her feathers.