Lavender Wheatens

[Suz]

I\'m so excited.  My first two chicks hatched this morning from the wheaten Ameraucana/self-blue d\'Anver cross.  They were still wet when I left for work, but they looked black.

[John]

I think I missed something.  I thought you were going to cross lavender over your blacks.  Is anyone else working on laverder wheaten?

[Suz]

Surprise!!!   Well, I started out wanting to cross blacks, but I only have the one black cockerel and he\'s getting some silver in his hackles and saddle feathers, so I didn\'t think he\'d be a good candidate.  It was mentioned in posts by bantamhill and grisaboy in the \"Lavender Bantams--? from Susie\" topic that I could try to make lavender wheatens.  Being a little anxious, and having access to wheatens, I\'m doing that until I get a better black.  I wonder, too, if anyone else has worked on lavender wheaten.  I can picture what the males will look like because I have a porcelain d\'uccle, but I\'m not sure what the lavender wheaten females would look like (hackle and body coloring.)

[grisaboy]

Suz,
You shouldn\'t be afraid to use your black cockerel with silver hackles in the Lavendar project.  One of the problems with the lavendar color is the straw yellow color that shows up in the hackles of the males.  The silver hackles in your black male indicates that he is genetically silver.  Lavendar birds carrying Silver should  be much less inclined to have the straw colored hackles.  Silver hackles are much less visible against the lavendar background.

[grisaboy]

Suz,
AS far as the wheaton X lavendar chicks being black;
The lavendar birds are most likely genetically E (black) which is dominant to e wh (wheaton).  The chicks are E, ewh-lavLAV.
Lavendar is recessive so none of the chicks will be lavendar but all carry the lavendar gene.  So basically what you have in this generation will look like Black crossed with wheaton. Expect the adults to look kind of like Brown Reds.

[Suz]

Grisaboy,

My black cockerel will be so happy!  Yes, I know that the lavender color is prone to brassiness and I\'ve been sitting here wondering how I could get the silver gene into my lavender project so that the males, especially, would not be brassy as they matured.  If it was a snake, it would have bit me, huh.  Thanks for the very good news.

Now would he (the black cockerel with some silver in his hackles and saddles) be good to cross with white females to pass the silver gene onto my whites?

[Suz]

Grisaboy,

Thank you VERY much for the genetic info. on the wheaten X lavender chicks.  So when I breed these crossed chicks to each other, would you expect the lavender wheaten color to be expressed?

If I get some color variation in these F1s, I may ask your advice as to which ones to use for breeding next season.

[grisaboy]

Suz,
RE: Wheaton X Lavendar cross
I am not a Genetics experts.  Most of my comments are based partly on experience and partly on my own somewhat simplistic genetic knowledge.
When you cross the F1 birds from the Wheaton X Lavendar cross Theoretically if you hatch 16 chicks you would get the following;
1 lavendar wheaton
1 lavendar
2 lavendar brown red
3 black
3 wheaton
6 brown red
The brown red birds are not true brown reds but wheaton/black crosses.  
These colors are based only on the E locus genes and lavendar/non lavendar genes.  There are bound to be other genes present that will also affect the colors, so it is unlikely that your blacks and lavendar birds will be pure for color.
Also, the percentages are theoretical and never work out that way in reality.  The more birds you hatch, the closer you will get to the theoretical percentages.
When selecting the F1 birds for your mating, choose birds that are closest to Ameraucana type.  Especially try to get away from the upright carriage and high tail that comes from the d\'anvers.

[Suz]

Here\'s a picture of my first two F1 birds (wheaten Ameraucana x self-blue d\'Anver).  They\'re 5 months old now.



Susie

[Mike Gilbert]

Wow!    The male is a dead ringer for brown red from the side view, crow winged and all.    Apparently the lavender parent carried at least one copy of sex linked gold (small s).    And the female is somewhat similar to black gold females.   Very interesting.   Now I\'m going to have to test cross the black gold with wheaten to make sure the black golds  are not just wheaten/birchen hetero\'s at the e-locus.  If they are we have wasted a lot of time and effort.

Mike G.

[John]

the adults to look kind of like Brown Reds

It looks like Curtis knew what he was talking about!

Susie,
The birds look great.  It will be neat to see what colors and patterns you get with the next generation.

FYI, A few years ago I used a black bantam cockerel with silver hackles, like the one you describe, over my silver females.  I didn\'t have a silver male to use and figured he was the best I had to work with.  He had the right colors and great type.  As I recall some of the offspring looked birchen.

[Guest]

Suz,

Using down color to identify the genetic make up of a chicken is very useful.


The chicks that are eWh/eWh and Lav+/Lav+ or Lav+/lav should have normal wheaten down color. This should be a clear cream down color over the entire body of the chick.

The 1/16 lavender wheaten you may get would be a lighter color than cream wheatens.

The EE or extended black chicks will be basicly black with cream or white on their bellies and breasts. Some black may run up onto their chins.

The E/eWh Lav+/Lav+ or Lav+/lav chicks  should look very much similar to the EE chicks.

The E/eWh lav/lav chick should be light blue on top and with a cream or white belly.

Your 1/16 lavender chick will be light blue all over.


When the birds get their adult plumage. The males that have the brown/gold color in the secondary feathers are the eWh/eWh birds.  

The males that are heterozygous will look like the  F1 male you have.

I can picture what the males will look like because I have a porcelain d\'uccle, but I\'m not sure what the lavender wheaten females would look like (hackle and body coloring

The lavender dilutes both black and red/gold.  Normally wheaten females are a wheat color or a salmon-brown color with the color being lighter on the breast and becoming even lighter as the color approaches the belly and  tail.  Just imagine this color pattern but the lavender gene will dilute the colors making them much lighter.

Rooster

[Suz]

These are 2 more pullets, 3 weeks younger than the pair above, and have less color.  I had two d\'Anver males breeding the Ameraucana hens.



I had planned to breed from all 3 females this spring.  Any opinions on whether that should still be my plan?

Mike, thanks for the reply and I hate to be the bearer of bad news about your black golds.  Does the picture of these pullets help in your decision to test cross or was it the picture of the cockerel that showed you the sex-linked gold?  Will that s gene have any effect on my goal for lavender wheatens?

Thanks,
Susie

[Guest]

Suz,

I know I am not a part of your circle but I would like to add my two cents. The birds look birchen. They could have some red in them if they were extended black but they have way too much in my opinion. Sex linked blacks are E/eWh heterozygous and the females will have some red in the breast but it is a solid red or a splashed red. I could be wrong and I have been wrong in the past. Just my two cents.

Rooster

[grisaboy]

I had planned to breed from all 3 females this spring.  Any opinions on whether that should still be my plan?

Hi Susie,

Your birds look great.  Iwould breed all of the females if I were you.  The hens have essentially the same genetics and since you want to hatch a lot of F2 chicks, the more egg generators you have, the better.  Good luck with the next generation.

Curtis