hi all

[Guest]

Hi everyone. Been visiting for awhile, decided i\'d join in the discussions. Have large breed ameraucanas, blues, blacks and splash. Have questions on these guys. Purchased as chicks last year from ameraucana breeder. Blues are clean faced, half of blacks are muffed and all splash are muffed. Is this just a coincidence? By the way, these guys are great birds.

[Paul]

All black, blue and splash should not have the problem with no muffs or beards!  Sometimes wheaten, blue wheaten and buff still surface with inadequate or no muffs or beards.  If you are considering breeding and raising show birds, you may want to try another source for your start of black, blue and splash, as I\'d bet that the majority of the ones that have muffs and beards are also carrying recessive genes of no muffs.

[Guest]

thanks for the info. I thought they all should have had beards and muffs, but just wanted to make sure. When ordered, mostly wanted blues and blacks, but got more splash, which is fine. The thing is that they came from a very reputable breeder, but I will not say on this forum. Was not really planning on showing them anyway, just looking for egg color and laying ability, but would have thought they would at least meet the standard. Oh, well. I still like my chickens. Just wish they\'d start laying,  :p

[Mike Gilbert]

Muffs and beards are readily apparent on even baby chicks.
See all the photos of baby Ameraucanas on this website.   Did you tell the seller you were only interested in colored eggs?
If you did not, I aplogize on behalf of the Ameraucana Breeders Club.    If you are happy with the remaining birds, remember to breed from only the best that have full muffs and beards.    The clean faced birds have no ability to transmit this characteristic to their offspring.

[Guest]

Thanks for all the responses. I\'m learning a lot and imagine I will never stop learning. great forum, by the way

[Guest]

Buckeye,

The muffs and beard (Mb)gene is not dominant but incompletely dominant. A bird can carry one copy of the muffs and beard gene and still not show muffs and beard.  If a bird has two copies of the muffs and beard gene they express the trait. I would guess that your birds have at least one copy of the gene.

One way to tell if they have one copy is to check the size of the wattles. The Mb gene reduces the size of the wattles. I have had females without muffs and beard that had very small wattles.

There could also be modifiers that are not documented that are preventing the expression of muffs and beard.

Tim

[Mike Gilbert]

Tim, while I agree Mb is incompletely dominant, those in the hetero state always have visible muffs and beard (unless they have been picked out by other birds).   My opinion is based on over 30 years of breeding these birds.  Usually the heteros have smaller muffs, but they always have them.   I have crossbred with perhaps dozens of other breeds in the past and have never come across any modifiers that prevent their expression.    

[Guest]

so, is it safe to assume that muff & beard(mb) bred to another mb should produce nothing but mb\'s? Or will an occasional throwback occur? Should a person not breed any non mb\'s? This is an interesting topic.  

[Guest]

Mike,

There must be other genes at work. The picture is of a female that produced chicks with muffs and beard. The male in the cross was a leghorn. She had to be a carrier. I did not run additional tests but I am sure she was a carrier.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/tadkerson/re02.jpg

Tim

[Guest]

Paul (Buckeye),

You can cross a male that carries one Mb gene with a female that carries one Mb gene and some of the offspring will not have muffs and beard. In order to produce chicks that all have muffs and beard, one parent must carry two genes for muffs and beard. The other parent can carry none, one or two Mb genes. Chicks that inherit one Mb gene will have variable expression of the muffs and beard. Could be good muffs and beard or poor muffs and beard.

Tim

[Mike Gilbert]

Tim,
I thinking your hen in the picture was carrying semen from a muffed rooster, and that is what produced the muffed chicks.
Short of a mutation there is no way she could have produced muffed chicks when crossed with a Leghorn - unless the Leghorn itself was muffed.   I\'m sure you sincerely believe what you are saying, but there must be another explanation.

[Guest]

Mike,

I have some clean faced birds that were hatched from a Mb x Mb mating. They would be F4 from the female in question. I started with two female easter eggers but mated both to the same leghorn. All of the F1 female offspring were back crossed to the same male leghorn. I then made a BC1 cross.  Two female mottled and barred birds segregated from the BC1 cross. I then out crossed one of the mobar females to a silver male producing the black clean faced females. The pullets are not old enough to lay as of now but should start in the near future. I have red jungle fowl I will mate them with. My muffed males will be in cages and will not be able to mate with the females. I will segregate the clean faced females and see what happens.

The female mobar.




Tim

[Guest]

Tim, two things:

That hen is GORGEOUS!  I\'ll take ten just like her.  And...

Why all the crossing?  What are you breeding for in the end, or do you just like to see what you get?  

[Guest]

here is a pic of my favorite cockerel, but he\'s clean faced. Odd thing, all chicks were same age, but he matured about 1 month before the other birds. BTW, got my first egg today Full size, not pullet size.

[Guest]

Kelli,

I do crosses to learn more about the genetics of the chicken. I am also working on a bluegger. One variety of my bluegger will be like the hen you saw but will eventually have a white crest.  I have a white variety. The muffs and beard need work.


I am still working on the white. It needs to have yellow legs. I have black, cuckoo barred and a brown red  barred variety but I need to add the crest to them.  The black variety will be white crested. I will be selling the birds in a couple of years.

Tim