Lacing in Blues

[Guest]

Looking for suggestions on how to improve the lacing in my Blue lines.

[Mike Gilbert]

You will need to introduce birds that carry the pattern gene (PG) and melanotic (ML?).    With my blue bantams I got what was needed by crossing in a blue Sumatra bantam with great lacing a couple of years ago.   Still working on that project, hope to make some good progress this year.  

[Guest]

I\'m interested in this also.  Does anyone have any pics to share of birds with what would be considered good lacing?  I\'d love to have a good visual so I can learn what would the ideal would be.

[HarryS]

Here is a question for the experts.  Should you  use a black that is bred in the blue line only or could you use any black out there.  I know you can breed any black to blue and get blacks and blues but if they are not carrying the lacing genetic background what benefit could there be by using such a bird.  Should you have two different black lines?  One for blue breeding and a seperate line for only pure black breeding.  

[John]

pics to share of birds with what would be considered good lacing?

Check out this topic:
http://ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=607
Also do a Search on this Forum using the word \"lacing\" and you\'ll get more info.

[Mike Gilbert]

There are different schools of thought regarding breeding blues, but here is mine for what it\'s worth.   First, good blacks should carry the sex-linked gold (s) gene to get the good green sheen.    Blues should carry the opposite (S) silver gene (same allele) to avoid brassiness and get a nicer, lighter shade of blue.   I believe in only breeding blue to blue once lacing has been established, and only those with the best lacing.   It is very hard to tell what kind of lacing a black might carry since it is a \"self\" color.   Those with more experience than I might be comfortable breeding in black, but I am not.    Then too, I have heard old- timers say that one  way to ruin good blacks is to start crossing them with blues.    So that\'s my two cents, and others are free to disagree.   In any discussion of color breeding I would be remiss in failing to mention that breed type and size and other characteristics should be higher on the priority list than  color.  

[Guest]

But I thought if you bred blue to blue you could get blues and blacks and splashes?

[Mike Gilbert]

Absolutely.   But I don\'t know of any mating you can make where you don\'t get some wasters for one reason or another.
You have to take the bad with the good.

[Guest]

oh ok. so the black chicks you might get from breeding 2 blues are not the same as regular blacks?

[bantamhill]

Depending on the genetics you are using the could be the same or they may very different.

Michael

[Guest]

Oh, genetics.  Just when I think I understand something...*poof*!!  It\'s gone again.  Though admitedly, I don\'t understand too much of it to begin with! :rolleyes: But I am trying...

Here\'s a couple of pictures of a blue pullet I have.  She looks a little lighter in person to me.  Would this be lacing (or just \"edging\")?  And what kind of rooster would be best to breed her to to improve it?  I thought black, but no?

 

[John]

lacing (or just \"edging\")?

I don\'t know, but she looks pretty good to me with the contrast between the body of the feathers and the edges.

[Guest]

Ok, trying to understand.

If I am looking at a black roo, and he shines green in the sun, then he has gold genes, and would not be appropriate to breed to a blue hen?

[Jean]

I prefer the opposite of what Mike does in his breeding program.  I decided I do not like to breed blue on blue as I have found in my flock that I ended up with poor lacing and poor color on my resulting blue birds.

I always breed blue to black.  I also have different lines in my flock than Mike.  My black roosters and some of my hens carry birchen genes, which is how I get slate legs on my black birds.

It may be a matter of what works for you and what particular genes your birds carry.

Jean

[Mike Gilbert]

It is often a mistake to generalize, as poultry genetics are just too complicated for that.    I have told you what I find to be true in my lines, based on several decades of experience.  You might want to go back and re-read what was said.  But what may be true with mine does not necessarily hold true for every line out there.    I do think that if your blues carry gold as opposed to silver that when they are in the sun for extended periods of time that the blue will bleach out and they will turn rusty.     When they molt and grow new feathers they will look OK again.     On the other hand, I have won several national champion bantam awards on black pullets that carry silver instead of gold.    I still think you get a better quality of black if they carry gold.    So what level of acceptability are you striving for?    I am trying for perfection, even though I know I will never achieve that standard.   The enjoyment is in the journey for me, not the destination.