Ameraucanas - poor layers?

[Guest]

I\'ve had Ameraucanas from 3 different strains since 2001.  Previously I kept mainly brown eggs layers such as Rhode Island Reds and Production Reds.  I must admit I\'ve found LF Ameraucanas to be very slow to start laying and really not the best layers.  My pullets from 2007 are just now starting to lay. I know I can\'t compare them to Production Reds but sheesh almost a year old and just starting to lay??  Its not due to poor management because I feed and water my birds very well and they get the proper feed formula\'s according to their age (i.e. chick, grower, layer).
Just wondering what everybody else\'s experience has been.  I\'m thinking about getting a dozen brown egg layers this year so I don\'t have to buy eggs from the neighbors next winter.

[Mike Gilbert]

Production is just one more thing to breed for, and it should certainly not be overlooked.   I have found that the most common cause of poor laying is inbreeding depression.   Why don\'t you try getting a rooster from an unrelated strain and raise some chicks from them?   I\'m willing to bet you will improve egg production immediately.   Once you have the coloring, size, type, and other traits you want, try trapnesting to see which are your better producers, and don\'t set eggs from the poor ones.   Production can be bred for like any other trait.   I doubt many of us have really focused very hard on egg laying in our strains.   Then too, we don\'t have the advantage of hybrid vigor associated with crossbred easter eggers.

[bantamhill]

I agree with Mike that production must be part of the breeding plan along with egg shell color, type, and variety. There are strains that lay very well, but it is because that has been a focus of the breeder. The strain of white bantam I have (Mike Gilbert\'s starin) out lay all of the other varieties of large fowl and bantam I have . . . next are the buff large fowl and the brown red large fowl I have been working on. By far my worst layers are buff bantam.

My technique has been to hatch from the early layers and the late layers where I have enough birds to breed from.

One of our challenges is having small numbers of birds to breed from . . . Curtis posted information about how many cocks to have to prevent inbreeding in a flock. As with egg shell color we need to remember that laying ability is also passed through the male line and keeping track of males is as important as the female line.

Just my thoughts!

Michael

[John]

Overall Ameraucanas, as a breed, are good layers.  Varieties and stains differ greatly.  
I\'ve got 8 lavender/black LF F1 pullets and get 6 to 8 eggs a day from them.  I also have about a dozen bantam wheaten pullets/hens and get about 2 eggs a day from them.  
My LF and bantam silvers are good layers.  The LF buffs are good layers also, but like Michael\'s, they are often broody.  
Check out the chart on my FAQ page to see how I rate the lay rate of the strains I have.

[Guest]

Production is the formost quality I breed for ... thats why I\'ve been so long in getting them to standard. I outcrossed (my line bred hens which were suffering not in production but in size) once and have maintained quality of egg & ROL (rate of lay). Granted, when requesting a rooster I asked particulary for the size and quality of egg.
The first outside hens I have introduced to my flock were Brown-Red and Blue/Black chicks from April 2007. They were slow to start laying, but now lay well.

One year is exceptionally late. Perhaps your lighting is poor and check for worms.

[Guest]

Thank you all for your comments.

Rose
They\'re not quite a year old yet. I don\'t use supplemental light in my barn because I have waterfowl (although not in with the chickens) in the same building that I don\'t want laying too early in the season.  
They were wormed with Ivomec last fall.
I use to use supplemental lighting during the winter months but I did an experiment one winter and didn\'t use it and found out it didn\'t make that much difference much to my surprise.
I think its the breed.  Unfortunately I don\'t have the time or facilities to introduce another breed to improve egg production.

[Guest]

Mike since most of the Ameraucana strains are closely related or inbred would you suggest as an example one use say a silver on a black to make such a cross  to improve production?
Are there any strains or colors  well known to have higher egg production in the breed?

[Guest]

John I really liked the LF  Silvers I originally got from you.
I can\'t remember how well they laid but they had the best egg shell color. I decided to go with the blacks and blues exclusively because I only had one pen for them and with the blacks and blues at least i could have 2 colors in the same pen.  John if you have any extra silver pullets this year please let me know .

[Mike Gilbert]

Vicky, you could make that cross, but you would end up with easter eggers the first generation.   But that\'s okay, if egg production is your primary concern.    If Rose has bred specificically for production, why not get an extra male from her and use it over your hens?   Either black, blue or mottled would fit in perfectly with your present birds.

[Guest]

Vicky, you also might worm for tapes (especially if they have access to earthworms) with Fenbendazole, but a fecal first is cheaper.

[Guest]

Rose
I thought Ivermectin worked on all worms.
No?

[Guest]

Anyone know how comprehensive a dewormer diamataceous earth is? I need to deworm 1 important breeder hen & that\'s the only deowormer I know I can get in a small affordable quantity.
Thanks, Laura

[bantamhill]

It will take care of intestinal worms, but not blood stream worms. DE works very well - I use it.

Michael

[Paul]

  We have raised 9 crops of Ameraucanas and 5 crops of EEL\'s.  No two growing seasons have been the exact same.  Some pullets have started as soon as 4 to 5 months of age, laying while other years they have been over 10 months of age, before laying.  Normally 7 months of age and they start laying.  I\'ve come to the conclusion that several factors are involved in early puberty.  The growing season, being number one then followed by genetics; time of year (length of daylight and average temperture) at maturity; and administration of sulphur drugs during growing stage to name a few.
 
  Personally, I prefer the pullets to be about 8 months before starting their egg production.  A delayed laying gives the pullets time to get larger which results in larger eggs.

[Guest]

No, ivermectin does not work for tapeworms. I have been using diatomaceous earth for tapeworms for about 6 months now. While I haven\'t done a fecal, I have not seen any passing, and wow are the girls fatter than they have ever been.