Eye Colors on the different Varieties and shank....

[philipu]

Well here it goes.
These birds are June hatched birds.

I have some blacks that the eye color is still pretty dark...
and some of the whites just getting some color, some still appear to what I call pearl color.
Also have a couple of buffs where the shanks are light, don\'t really see any slate, should I cull these, type and combs good.
ones undercoat is like almost white, but it is just starting to get
what I learned are called sex feathers, this is the adult feathers,
and they are appearing to be more vibrate and darker buff.
The first feathers where buff with white.
What should I cull on these....
thanks, phil

[Mike Gilbert]

Phil,
If you have any well colored buff females with decent type that have white shanks, I would keep them as breeders.   Just make sure the male you use with them has slate legs.    All the females from such a mating  will have slate legs and all the males will have white legs, but will carry the gene for slate.   That is because the gene that causes dermal melanin pigment is carried on the sex-link chromosome.   In birds the males have the extra gene bearing chromosome, just the opposite of humans.


With regard to the eye color of the whites and blacks, they are still too young to cull on that basis alone.

Mike

[philipu]

Hi Mike, thanks, what if a male has the white colored leg shank?
Would that mean he is only carrying one gene for the slate or none at all?
phil

[John]

Some of my LF buffs also don\'t have buff under color or fluff (if that is what it is called), but white.  They look buff, but when you move the feathers around you will see that the part that isn\'t exposed is white.  The LF buff variety is improving, but isn\'t developed to the same degree as the Blacks and Whites.  Good buff color, combs, leg color and egg color can be found, but very rarely on the same bird.  The ones you have may not be show quality, but sound like valuable breeders when mated to the right birds.  I\'m big on compensation mating.  
I originally used 5 buff Orpington pullets (hatchery stock) and a medium sized white Ameraucana cock (from Jerry Segler) to develop LF buffs.  After I had some LF whites (using that same cock over 5 white Orpingtons) and Mike and I developed bantam buffs, I put a LF white male over buff bantam females.  Those strains were breed together and over the years have also used a bantam buff male and buff laced Polish male for various reasons.  The Polish gave me the slate legs and made them less \"fluffy\".  I believe Arne Schmidt used LF whites and buff Orpingtons to develop his strain.  Jay Horn said he has crossed LF whites into his buffs to try to get slate legs.  I think he bought his buffs from me before I made the Polish cross.

[Mike Gilbert]

Hi Mike, thanks, what if a male has the white colored leg shank?
Would that mean he is only carrying one gene for the slate or none at all?
phil

Phil,
You can\'t tell if a white legged male has one gene for slate legs or none by looking at him.   I\'m quite sure John would have used slate legs on one side of any mating he made, so I\'m betting your white legged males do have the one gene for slate legs.    If so, half the pullets from him will have dark legs, the other half white legs (irregardless of the leg color of the females used).   If he is mated with slate legged females, same ratio in the male offspring, half and half.   If he is mated with white legged females, all the male offspring will have white legs.  Hope this helps.

Mike

Mike

[Guest]

For what it is worth, when we had the rooster we called \"golden\", we kept a few of his mixed chicks that we hatched out using the buddy system, (because we have such a time candling Ameraucana eggs),  we had a couple from our Buff orpington hen, and what hatched were beautiful buff chicks, that grew up nicely, having a deep rich buff color.  however because we knew nothign about breeding, and knew they were half breeds, we sold them at auction in the fall, so have no idea what their next generation might have produced.
But maybe the information can be helpfull in devreloping a deeper ritch buff color, as I imagine the white genes are bleaching out the color??

[John]

I\'m quite sure John would have used slate legs on one side of any mating he made, so I\'m betting your white legged males do have the one gene for slate legs.

That is true.  Phil\'s LF buffs came from McKinney Hatchery and hopefully they did the same.
Here is a photo of one of my LF hens using florescent lights.

[Mike Gilbert]

That\'s a very nice looking hen John.    That one should be posted under pictures on this website.  

Rita, the white does not act to \"bleach\" out the slate.   Either the gene for production of dermal melanin is there or it isn\'t.
So all females have either got it or they don\'t.   They can only have the one gene for this trait.  In males, however, they can have one of each (two genes, same locus).  The dark pigment gene is recessive, so the mere presence of the gene for NO dark pigment prevents the dermal melanin from even forming.
The sex link gene for barring also prevents dermal melanin from forming - even if two genes for dermal melanin is present.    That is why we will never see barred birds with slate legs - in any breed - unless some other offsetting  mutation were to occur in the future.

[Guest]

Hi Mike, sorry I was not refering to the leg color, i meant the bleaching in the feather color, Buff Orpingtons are very prone top bleach out too when on a pasture situation, but those thast were mixed, kept a very deep & rich buff color, that did not seam to fade..so i was wondering if maybe a light wheaton maybe could be used to deepen the color, instead of a white male??
I am not sure, as a wheaton would carrie the smutt that all too often apears in the buff orpingtons at least, were their is a brounish cast in the tail feathers??
Ours was a \"Bred-Up version so had an unkown background up until 2 generations before the crosses.
So my observations probably have no bennifit..but I just thought I would share it just incase someone who understands genetics thought it was usefull. to know??
Ours did have very light slate coloring, one was comming close to what could be called slate, but the other 2 were still close to the \"clear\" of the orpingtons.