Author Topic: Partridge Ameraucana  (Read 29438 times)

angora831

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Partridge Ameraucana
« on: November 04, 2009, 03:52:33 PM »
  For a while now I have been re-reading previous threads in the Forum, mainly to get more information on the genetics of certain traits and colors.  In a thread on the lavender color a couple of years ago, there was a comment made that there were presently no brown varieties based on the E-locus gene.  The person went on to say that if he were to create one it would be partridge.  This stuck a cord with me because I had been looking for more information on a blue partridge Ameraucana that I had seen offered on an egg auction site.
  I would like to attempt to work on this Partridge Ameraucana project and it was suggested that I post my questions on the Forum to see what response and ideas that I get.  I have found only four breeds that have the partridge variety.  Chantecler, Cochin, Plymouth Rock, and Wyandotte.  All of these would bring light brown egg color, yellow legs, and different combs to a cross with a quality black Ameraucana.
Knowing that this is a long term project, I wanted to get as much information and/or suggestions from the Forum.  I know that there are super genetics people out there as well as breeders that have been around Ameraucanas from day 1.  What are the pros and cons of this idea as you see it?

Thanks in advance
Ken


Guest

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 06:28:31 PM »
Ken, it would be a very long term project involving raising hundreds culls.  But if you have the time and commitment, go for it.   Of the breeds mentioned, partridge plymouth rock is probably the closest in type, and single comb is not that difficult to breed out.   Down the line when you are getting close to what you want, it will take test mating of all your breeders to eliminate the recessive yellow epidermis gene. 
Are you familiar with what it takes to have a new variety admitted to the A.P.A. Standard of Perfection?   The requirements are listed in the bylaws, and they are published in the annual yearbook.   Which, by the way, was out in a timely fashion this year for the first time in recent memory.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 02:23:23 PM by Susan Mouw »

Guest

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 11:25:19 AM »
Ken,

I have a another way to produce your birds. Cross a gold brabanter to the black ameraucana. Brabanter lay a white egg, have muffs and beard, and have blue shanks and white skin. You will have to breed out the crest and two genes called dark brown and the melanotic gene. You will have to breed in the blue egg shell gene.

The white egg will get you away from green eggs.

Another cross would be to a gold campine. You would have to breed in muffs and beard and the blue egg shell gene. Skin and shanks are the same. You will have to breed out one gene- the dark brown gene.

You can email me if you have more questions.

tadkerson@netzro.com

Tim

Mike Gilbert

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 02:57:08 PM »
Are Brabanters available in this country?   I have never seen one at a show - or anywhere else.   I don\'t know anything about their genetics.   The Campine, according to Jeffrey, does not have pattern gene (Pg) in its genetic roadmap, and Pg is an essential component of the partridge color pattern.   Or is there something more recent that indicates so?   The Campine is smaller in weight than Ameraucana and has white earlobes.  From what I have heard it has a flighty temperament also; there is more than color to consider.   Unless Brabanter are available I think I would prefer to work with the Partridge Plymouth Rock on such a project.  I should think it would be possible to find a couple of females that lay only a very light tinted egg.

grisaboy

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 04:59:21 PM »
I think you might find e>b floating around in some easter egger flocks.  Especially some of the older (less corrupted flocks) like Murray McMurray.  Some of these have e>b, but they don\'t have the PG gene to get the partridge color.

angora831

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 07:12:53 PM »
I appreciate the ideas and know that there is a long road ahead if this project is pursued.  At this point of year I don\'t think that a whole lot can be done, except some exploring into what each breed brings to the table and then starting on a course to get things rolling.  I need to get better acquainted with the genetics(college genetics seems so long ago).  That is what I am looking at now.  I don\'t know if I can find the right partridge variety birds now, but I am looking at my black pullets and hens to see what we have to work with.  If there is something that is worth doing it is worth doing well, so I want to get all of my proverbial eggs in order before moving on.  Keep the thoughts coming.

Ken

angora831

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2009, 10:17:36 AM »
I am only going to learn if I ask questions, so here goes.  In a cross with a Partridge Rock to a black Ameraucana one can expect the Partridge bird to carry eb eb, ss or s-, and PgPg.  This would be the gold side of the variety.  If a cross was to be made with a Silver Penciled Rock you could expect the bird to contribute eb eb, SS or S- and PgPg.  This would be from the silver side.   In either case the Partridge gene is contributed to the cross. Would there be a advantage or disadvantage in using the silver over the gold or vice versa in a cross to arrive at a Partridge Ameraucana?

Thanks,
Ken

Birch Run Farm

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2009, 11:06:34 AM »
I\'m tuning in to your post because I am working on partridge araucanas.  I have obtained a nice partridge rock hen to use mostly as a visual reference for color and feather pattern.  Quite interesting is she lays an almost white egg, not brown at all.  I have no plans to cross her into my araucanas for now, however I do have a good black tufted cockerel.  

If I ever obtain a breeder quality black ameraucana cock I may join you in this project.  

Guest

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 06:29:06 AM »
Quote from: Mike Gilbert
Are Brabanters available in this country?   I have never seen one at a show - or anywhere else.   I don\'t know anything about their genetics.   The Campine, according to Jeffrey, does not have pattern gene (Pg) in its genetic roadmap, and Pg is an essential component of the partridge color pattern.   Or is there something more recent that indicates so?   The Campine is smaller in weight than Ameraucana and has white earlobes.  From what I have heard it has a flighty temperament also; there is more than color to consider.   Unless Brabanter are available I think I would prefer to work with the Partridge Plymouth Rock on such a project.  I should think it would be possible to find a couple of females that lay only a very light tinted egg.


Brabanter are in the USA I have had them in the past. I will have to disagree with Jeffrey ( so does Smyth and Carefoot), Campines do contain the pattern gene.

Tim

grisaboy

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 08:52:36 AM »
Quote from: angora831
Would there be a advantage or disadvantage in using the silver over the gold or vice versa in a cross to arrive at a Partridge Ameraucana?


If you are trying to get partridge, you would get there quicker using gold (partridge) birds.  Personally, I would cross the partidge rocks with wheatons.  That way you know what you are starting with.  It is hard to tell what colors or patterns are underneath a black or a white bird.  Brown Red would probably work, but they are not as common and do not have as good type as the wheatons.  

If you have the space, I would cross both was PR males to Wheaton females (pen A) and wheaton males to PR females (pen B).  
You don\'t need too many in the first cross.  Just a few males and females from each pen.
Next generation cross pen A males to pen B females and vice versa.  Hatch a lot from this generation, as many as you have space for. You will hatch a lot of yellow-white chicks and a few brown chicks.  Only keep the brown chicks.  These are eb and the start of your patridge Ameraucanas.
Grow out as many of the brown chicks as you can.  You will need to cull hard, but may not be able to tell which are best until they get older.  
You will need to cull for color, yellow legs (recessive so will be carried by those without), light legs versus slate legs, combs, beards, egg color (blue vs green, non blue/green) and Ameraucana shape and size. ( Actually using Plymouth Rocks should help with size).
Subsequent generations, breed best to best and continue to hatch a lot and cull hard.
After your fourth generation, you may want to get a few white leghorns to progeny test your birds.  They will help you find many of the lingering recessive genes.  You don\'t want to keep any of the leghorn crosses for your breeding flock, but you will want to raise some of the pullets to laying age to test for egg color.

Once you have a nice flock of Partridge Ameraucanas, then you can start lobbying your fellow club members to help you get them into the standard.  That is another multi-year project.

Curtis

p.s -  You could also start this process using hatchery Easter Eggers for the first cross to Partridge Rocks.  I would only use brown hens and black breasted red males.  It may take a little longer this way, but not much.  Still mostly comes down to hatching a lot and culling a lot. (hope you like to eat chicken)


Beth C

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 04:43:10 PM »
With all the talk about projects, I wanted to bump up my favorite one and ask how it\'s going.  :D

angora831

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 02:26:12 PM »
The project continues to progress.  I have hatched some chicks from the F1 crosses.  I really need to get pictures up on the Forum but the cord for the camera is missing.  More than likely a small grandchild type person has put it somewher really neat so Grandpa can\'t find it.
Any way out of the dozen or so eggs that have hatched so far I have a yellow color on the one end of the range and a dark  almost mahogany on the other end of the spectrum.  These dark ones should be my Partridge Ameraucana chicks.  These chicks have darker legs, I wouldn\'t really call them slate at this time.  The chicks that are in between these two colors are all over the palate in color shades.  Some lighter some darker, not really brown and not near yellow either.
I will work on getting some pictures up when I get the cord in need for the camera.  Another trip to Radio Shack.

Beth C

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 04:19:38 PM »
Quote
More than likely a small grandchild type person has put it somewher really neat so Grandpa can\'t find it.


I feel your pain - we once found Mike\'s cell phone in a pickle barrel (the kind with the 2 piece lid) that I kept in the pasture as a goat toy. And I\'ve given up hope of ever finding my wedding band. I was actually giving chase when that one went poof...

Can\'t wait to see the pictures, and to see how they feather out!

Birdcrazy

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 06:40:01 PM »
I may be starting more controversy, I hope not, with all the bickering on other topics on this forum. I am of the opinion, and doubt I can be persuaded to change my mind. Grandkids are great, even awesome! I really think its the parents fault not us grandparents or grandkids. I\'m already doing all I can to spoil them! Enough said!
Gordon Gilliam

Beth C

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Partridge Ameraucana
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 06:46:55 PM »
Lol, I AM the parent!! And no argument here, he is awesome. He is also smarter than we are, and there-in lies the problem! :p