black and blue

[cedarpondfarm]

How do you know if a black rooster is extended black or birchen with melanizers?  If that same black rooster is out of a black and blue cross, would he carry the blue gene?  

[Mike Gilbert]

Bl is dominant.   If he carries Bl he will be some shade of gray, not black.

[grisaboy]

Most black Ameraucanas are \"E\" extended black and not \"E>R\" birchen.  However, it is impossible to tell by looking at a black rooster.  I think E>R is more likely to have red or white feathers \'leaking\' through in the neck hackles, but this can also happen with E birds.  E>R baby chicks are usually solid black maybe with a touch of brown on the head.  E baby chicks are usually black with a white belly.  This is not always true as I have had E>R chicks hatch that had a white belly.  There are also birds that carry both E and E>R that can confuse the issue further.  If the rooster is black, he does not carry the blue gene.

Curtis

[John]

How do you know if a black rooster is extended black or birchen

I can\'t prove it, but believe E blacks will have black shanks and E^R will have slate shanks.

[Mike Gilbert]

 E>R baby chicks are usually solid black maybe with a touch of brown on the head.  E baby chicks are usually black with a white belly.  This is not always true as I have had E>R chicks hatch that had a white belly.  

Curtis, are you sure you are not confusing E>R with E>b (brown)?    E>b chicks often have brown on the head, like my silver laced Wyandotte bantams.     E>R as in brown reds will often have a little brown around the face, but E>R as in birchen do not, as least mine did not.

[John]

FYI, from
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html#gen_mut_elocus

Both E & ER down are indistinguishable, with variation from all black (eumelanin) to black with white as shown above.

The E locus is important to learn with poultry genetics. The common E locus alleles are:

•E (Extended Black) –black/cream day-old chicks, adults predominantly black, but may have some pheomelanin (silver or gold) areas in hackles.
•ER (Birchen)- black/cream day-old chicks, adults predominantly black, but may have more pheomelanin (silver or gold) areas in hackles, wing bows, etc.

On the ABC Scrapbook (photos) page there are links to photos of day-old chicks.  Many of these were mine and I think it is interesting to compare the bantam and LF black and brown red chicks.  The LF brown reds were almost completely black, while the bantam brown reds had much more of the cream like the black (E) chicks.

[grisaboy]

Curtis, are you sure you are not confusing E>R with E>b (brown)?    

I\'ve raised a lot of Birchen and Brown Red Modern Games so I am certain that I am not confusing E>R with E>b.  But you are right that the brown heads are more of a brown red trait and not common in birchens.  I was referring to E>R Birchen more as the gene identifier rather than the actual color.  The main point was that nearly all of the Birchen and Brown Red Modern Game Chicks had solid black bellies and nearly all of the black Ameraucana chicks I\'ve seen have creamy white bellies.  I also used to raise black Old English bantams, which are E>R based.  All of the black Old English chicks hatched out solid black with black bellies.  I have some Large Fowl Birchen Modern Games hatching now and about half have creamy white bellies. There are a couple with brown heads too.  I am not certain they are pure for E>R though.

Curtis