Some hidden genes.

[John]

I have one pair mating of LF blacks this year that is producing chicks that look black, blue and splash.  I should raise some up that appear blue and splash to see what they really are.  Even if one of these blacks were a blue they shouldn\'t produce splash.  If they both carry white they could produce white chicks, but the down on the chicks looks kind of grayish...their wing feathers are coming in white.

[Jean]

Looks like someone has some recessive whites in their flock.....

[Mike Gilbert]

Yes, these look like recessive whites.   Blacks have been outshining the whites since the 1990\'s when white cockerels won champ large fowl at two consecutive national meets, so these may be on a par with the blacks.   They will produce all whites when mated among themselves, and about half whites when mated back to their black parents.

[Guest]

Greeneggsnham, you\'ve probably already figured the obvious; what they\'re not saying, probably because they\'ve been breeding long enough to forget us newbies might not know, is that recessive whites hatch as smokey, sometimes nearly blue or lavender colored chicks. Both black parents are most surely split for recessive white, and will continue to pass this trait on if they, or their black chicks, are used to breed in your black flock.................... or sold to someone else as black Ameraucana.

[Korfus Kluckers]

Looks like my LF Orpington chicks. Recessive whites hatch out a smokey gray color. I have even had them hatch out to look almost blue, but with a whitish under down.

[Mike Gilbert]

They are usually grey if based on E or ER at the e locus.  But recessive whites based on eWH will be white or yellowish.  I used to get them out of my buff bantams - not anymore.

[jerryse]

yes I used to get them out of buff.I used white in the early days to produce buff.I do not think any of that line is still around.I currently get them out of birchen.Did not use any whites there.It is like getting a red headed child when no one remembers a red head in the family.It is just genetics.

[greeneggsandham]

I have not had any blacks throw that color chick, thankfully.  I did have a LF blue x splash cross produce a chick that was a very light blue or lavender color overall.  No cream on the underside.  It turned out to be a splash color.  Normally splash is a yellow chick down color, correct?  What if anything does that blue down chick color indicate?

[John]

I haven\'t replied to the replies to this topic because I was hoping for another \"blue\" looking chick to get a photo of and two hatched the other day.  The reason I said that some \"looked\" splash is that there were 3 colors that came from a pair mating of black (disclaimer - they sure look like blacks to me) birds.  Black, blue and spash would go together.
Anyway the ones that looked like they may be splash may very well be white, since I kept at least one and it is feathering out white.  
What do you all think is the cause of these that look to be blue.  What variety/pattern will they be?  Note the wing feathers are showing blue.  What is weird is the cream colored areas on their backs appear to show silver on one and gold on the other as they hatched.  They are not blue on the backs, but both have a similar pattern...on thier backs and backs of thier heads.
The first photo shows them, from the back side, with 3 of thier black siblings.  

[Jean]

John,

Give them a week and I bet they will be white.......

[Guest]

I have not had any blacks throw that color chick, thankfully.  I did have a LF blue x splash cross produce a chick that was a very light blue or lavender color overall.  No cream on the underside.  It turned out to be a splash color.  Normally splash is a yellow chick down color, correct?  What if anything does that blue down chick color indicate?

Trying to learn how to interpret and use this board. Greeneggs&ham, those are not your chicks? Since John credited you as the OP, I figured he moved your chicks picture here from the other thread. I\'m more confused than usual tonight.  :p

[greeneggsandham]

No, not my pics or chicks.  I don\'t know why my name shows as topic starter.

[Mike Gilbert]

John, didn\'t you at one time cross blacks with silvers?  My guess is you have a breeding pair of birds that are not homozygous for E.   You would think any of those males would show some off coloring, but apparently not in this case.   What is interesting to me is the white or creamy patch on the back of the head, as it reminds one of barred chick down.  My guess is that either these chicks did not inherit E from either parent, or there is something going on that prevents one copy of E from expressing properly.  Since they are showing \"blue\" in the wings already they are not going to be whites.

[John]

I don\'t know why my name shows as topic starter.

I think I originally used my top post as a reply to another topic started by Green Eggs and later \"split\" it off so that it is now a separate topic with a title I gave it.  For whatever reason the forum is setup to show the creator of the original topic as the creator of all topics split from it.

cross blacks with silvers?

Sure, but that was to make improvements to the silvers so I didn\'t keep any crosses to produce blacks.
I\'m glad at least two chicks hatched like this to show what appears to be a pattern in the chick\'s phenotype and I don\'t think EE chicks would/should have a pattern.  It is interesting that this same pair of breeders produced the white chick and if that is what it is they both carry recessive white besides whatever gene(s) is/are needed to produce these special blues.
I\'ll grow them at least for a while to see how they feather out.

[Guest]

Can you breed a white chick from one or these matings to a pure white, and get more whites...or is that not a good idea. :thinking: I may have a white from a black mating..it could just be splash. :stare: