Blue Silver LF

[John]

could the silver blue birds be used to increase size in our silvers?

The blues that Mike used to create them would have brought an increase in size.  It could have been lost already though.
The outcrosses that Jean and I have made to blacks have resulted in larger silver strains also.

About how many generations before we are back to the pure silver gene?

If you mean wildtype (e+/e+) then they were there when \"chipmunk\" stripped chicks hatched the 2nd generation.
If you mean the silver color (S) then it was there with the 1st generation of pullets due to the original cross he made.  If he didn\'t breed from any F1 cockerels they were pure for silver all along.

I think they could be improved over time in that respect through selection pressure.

Silvers, both LF and bantams, have always been the flightiest of all Ameraucanas.  I have often wondered if the trait is connected to the wildtype gene.  

[Mike Gilbert]

John, I agree with what you are saying, but when you cross black with silver, and then back to silver, some of the modifying genes that make a black bird totally black (or blue as the case may be) usually come along, and I\'m not speaking of E obviously.   Ml (melanotic) and Cha (charcoal) are two known examples of dominant modifying genes that most likely would also have to be bred out of the silvers in order to get back to a silvery gray female Ameaucana.  I\'m fairly certain there may be other unknown modifying genes that come into play as well.  I originally made the blue cross in the attempt to eliminate shafting (didn\'t really work) and to help lighten up the shade of silvery gray in the females.  So the blue silvers were really a byproduct of an attempt to improve my silvers.

[John]

would also have to be bred out of the silvers in order to get back to a silvery gray

Yes, you are right.  I only was talking about the silver (S) and wildtype (e+) genes, since Jess mentioned \"gene\".      
Mike and some others know I outcrossed most of my LF varieties to blacks in recent years (and different times over the decades).  It only takes a couple years to get back to having varieties \"pure\" at the e-locus...the foundation of any variety.  The problem is there are secondary genes and sometimes unknown modifying genes that are needed to create a color variety.  Selecting for and against all these genes can take many years.  The odds are not in favor of a bird being \"pure\" for each and every gene required to make it whatever variety it is supposed to be.  
The good news is that thru my outcrosses I\'ve seen improved size and reduced shafting in my LF silvers.
 

[Guest]

These birds are probably already bigger than most other silvers out there.

I hope to take some pictures in the next couple days of what a typical silver pullet looks like and how my outcrosses have turned out.

It\'s a big difference.

Can\'t wait to see pictures. I like the Silver Ameraucana variety. I have Silvers and have been debating on whether I want to do an outcross to black to improve them.

[Jean]

Silvers, both LF and bantams, have always been the flightiest of all Ameraucanas.  I have often wondered if the trait is connected to the wildtype gene.  

They can fly pretty good too!!!!  They are the best foragers in my flock because they tend to wander farther than the rest and they like to roost high.

I\'m going out to get those photos...

[John]

when you cross black with silver, and then back to silver

FYI...This year is the first year that all the silver breeders in my main LF silver breeding coop are 1/4 black.  There are 2 cockerels and 12 pullets in there and they all have good silver phenotype.   I\'ll cull all day-old chicks that don\'t show the correct phenotype.  
Progress is being made!  

[Jean]

Ok, got my pictures.  I had to use my older camera, so hope they aren\'t to grainy.  This is my grow out area.

Typical silver variety ameraucana hen:


One of this year pullets:



This is what a bird that retains too many melanizers looks like.  She\'s grumpy because she is trying to set; it\'s about 20 degrees outside.



The onlysilver cockerel I saved this year:

[dixieland]

Your cockerel is very similar to my two cockerels from what I can see.....I have one cockerel with a solid black chest and one with some markings on his chest.....

Thanks for sharing pix!

[Guest]

I love the pics of the Blue Silvers!  Very interesting!

[crystalcreek]

Jean I think you made a huge improvement in type in just one generation with that silver hen- wow!  

[Guest]

Ohhh wow I REALLY like the blue silvers!!  The silvers are my least favorite color but the blue silvers are stunning!

[FLFAmeraucanas]

Wow, Jean those photos are pretty striking.  It is really neat to see how much they can improve on thier parents!

Does anyone know about the red on the silver blue cockerel\'s wing?  I assume it\'s not supposed to be there... If it doesn\'t get any worse, is it a deal breaker? Should I treat it like normal red leaking, and just use him as yard candy?  He is the only one who has it.  Should I assume it came from the blue Silver hen (I\'m assuming that\'s his mom)?

[Jean]

If he is all you have, just breed him and hatch lots of chicks.  You\'re bound to get a couple that are clean.

[Admhotel]

I had found an older post about trying to develop the Blue Silvers, is anyone still working on them? I am very intersted in doing this and was wondering what problems people have run into.

[HappyMtn]

I have some blue silvers with an added cuckoo gene popping up in my lavender cuckoo projects.  I tried to post a pic, btu it was too big.