Cock to hen ratios

[Jean]

Hi all!

I was just wondering if I could ask people what is the highest number of hens you have had to one cock and still had good fertility?

I know the recommendation is 10 to 1.  I just set up my black pen and there are 15 hens.  Some will be weeded out as I know they will be green egg layers.

I just wanted to see if any of you have tempted fate and gone with a higher number of hens.

Jean

[John]

I don\'t remember when or where I read it, but have always thought that a 1 to 7 ratio was considered ideal, for small pen matings involving 1 male.  I generally setup my matings very close to that number.    
I don\'t have any experience with ratios as high as 1 to 15.  I would probably keep your cock with the hens for 6 days and remove him to a coop by himself for one day per week.
I trim the feathers around the vent area on all my breeders every year to give the birds the best chance to produce fertile eggs.  

[Paul]

I have had 15 hens to 1 cock in the past with good fertility.  Each hen must be mated within 21 days to remain fertile.  Most Ameraucana males are very active breeders and will keep their hens eggs fertile.

[Jean]

Thanks for the answers!  I got all my pens set up tonight.  I even got an experimental one put together.

My black and blue pens are the largest, but like I said I will be weeding out hens that lay green eggs.

I should have plenty of good birds since I have two pens; black over blue and blue over black.  

Jean

[Guest]

I had 1:20 last year, and he still wore the feathers off my poor girls. Great fertility also, with no intervention. These were EEs though.

[grisaboy]

The following is an article about inbreeding in exhibition flocks.  One male to 15 females may produce fertile eggs but may not be adequate to prevent inbreeding problems.  According to this article, most of us probably don\'t keep enough males in our breeding program.

Curtis


Coefficient of Inbreeding

Many of the outstanding exhibition strains of poultry have been developed using variations of inbreeding followed by line breeding.  This has resulted in outstanding exhibition birds but often the strains suffer from poor vitality, vigor and productivity.

So how do we develop a strain that has the outstanding traits that we desire without suffering from inbreeding depression?  

The key to avoiding inbreeding depression in a strain is to keep enough birds in your breeding pens so that the probability of mating close relatives is reduced.  It is especially critical to maintain enough males in your breeding program.

The coefficient of inbreeding can be determined by using the following formula.  (1/8M + 1/8F = In/Gen). Where M is the number of males and F is the number of females.  Mating full brother to full sister results in a coefficient of inbreeding of 0.25 where 25% of the genes of the parents are shared by all of the offspring.  The coefficient of inbreeding is used to determine how many generations it would take with your current number of breeders before you would reach an Inbreeding Coefficient equal to a full brother to full sister mating.

Some Examples:
# of Males    # of Females   # of Generations to reach 0.25 co-efficient
1      2      1
1      6      2
1      12      2
2      4      3
2      12      3
4      8      5
4      12      6
6      12      8
6      18      9
8      12      10
8      24      12
12      36      18      

As you can see, the number of males used in your program greatly increases the number of generations it takes before you reach a critical inbreeding coefficient.  If you keep 8 or more males, you basically can maintain your strain indefinitely without going outside your strain for new blood.

[John]

The key to avoiding inbreeding depression in a strain is to keep enough birds in your breeding pens so that the probability of mating close relatives is reduced. It is especially critical to maintain enough males in your breeding program.

Now there is a guy that knows what he is talking about.

[Paul]

     We presently are using 26 blue, black and splash males and 9 wheaten, blue wheaten and splash wheaten males, our 2008 hatch birds.  All chicks are toe punched at hatching, according to the number assigned to the breeding pen which produced the eggs that produced them.  The APA toe punch system is 1, 2, 4 and 8 - starting with the birds left outside web and advancing one web at time-ending with the bird\'s right outside web being 8.  This system only allows for 15 different breeding pens so I came up with the plus (+) system which is a hole punched then slit open.  The plus system allows for an additional 15 more breeding pens.  
 
   Toe punching all chicks allows the producer to know how all of the birds are bred.  When the breeding pens are set-up in the fall (after the hot weather is gone), I usually put the females produced from one breeding pen together, with a non-related or distant related male produced from a different breeding pen to prevent inbreeding.  We have used the toe punch system of marking our birds even before we started raising Ameraucanas.  It was used on the EELs.  I highly recommend it, to everyone serious about breeding their birds.
   
  We have shown our Ameraucanas since 1999, and haven\'t had any negative comments about the holes from any of the many judges.  It requires a lot of extra effort and time to use a toe punch system to mark the birds, but it is worth it.  Each egg is marked with the pen number at gathering.  The eggs are sorted by the number written on them before setting the incubator.  The eggs are partitioned off by their number when they are taken out of the racks and laid in the hatching trays with homemade lids on the trays.  The babies are marked before being placed together.  
   
  I have found the best way to use a toe punch is with the spike (push pin) pointed up and the hole side of the puncher on top.  When the puncher is closed on the chick\'s web make sure the circular part of the web is totally removed, otherwise it may grow back leaving only a slight scar.  It can easily be removed with a fingernail while the puncher is still mashed closed on the chick\'s web.