Color questions

[Jean]

I know I have asked before, but I cannot find the post and have forgotten the answer.

When you breed black and white color varieties together, do you get a black or white chick or a mixed color?

Personal opinion......

Is it easier to remove black or white from the buff genetics?

I need to improve my egg color greatly on my buffs and I have an opportunity to get white chicks that come from very blue eggs.  I have black and blue available with good egg color, but I wanted seasoned professionals to voice their opinions.

Thank you,

Jean

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean,
Various genetic factors can go into the making of an all white or all black chicken.   When you cross the two varieties, you can get quite a number of results, including blue.   The only sure way to know is to make the cross.   But what are you trying to accomplish?   For example, I would cross white with black to improve the whites, but would never make that cross to improve blacks.   As for the question about buffs, my experience is that it is easier to remove black pepper in the wings and tail than it is to romove white, which can cause mealiness throughout the entire body.   Does anybody else have a different experience to share?

Mike Gilbert

[Jean]

The reason I asked about mixing the black and white is because a friend has a nice white roo and would like to improve egg color, she is not into breeding ameraucanas, but she has some.  It is mostly to get bluer eggs for her business.

I guess from a little bit of reading I did this afternoon, you could get some red in your chicks if your blacks carry the red gene; or you could get gold, silver, or any other modifier that is suppressed in the parent bird.  Did I read that right??

I was thinking of breeding a black/white with my buffs to improve egg color, I know it will take several generations to remove the off color and improve the shell color as they are pretty green.  Or, I could just get a scouring pad and rub all the brown off til I get to the blue, it might be easier......

I think someone once told me to use a wheaten, but I only have one pullet and one cockerel and her egg color is not that great.  If that is the best cross, (if anyone has an opinion on it) then I will wait until I get some wheatens.  I plan to order some hatching eggs this spring and will use them in my improvement project next year.

Jean

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean,
Your research is right on.
Your best bet on the buffs is to get other buffs that lay blue eggs.   If that is not possible, then wheaten is your best outcross.   I would use wheaten females only, with superior egg color, with as little black in the tail and wings as possible.
There is an article in the most recent breeders handbook dealing with this subject.

[John]

I would suggest you just keep selecting for the bluest eggs from the buffs.  No matter what you do it will take several generations.  I am working on it to as you know.  

[bantamhill]

Jean,

I focused on egg shell color with several Ameraucana varieties in 2006 and have been quite pleased with the results. I have been surprized by the improvement in just one generation. I paid close attention to the egg shell color of the cock birds in 2005 (and 2006) and have seen results appearing in their daughter\'s already.

My suggestion is this - raise what you need to for show purposes ASAP (keep track of the eggs shell color at hatching and toe punch or band those that hatch from the best egg shell color - if they are good at maturity the cockerels will become your flock sires) and then do a cross or several for egg color to the buff. From this group I would keep the best type and egg shell color birds. Wheaten would be ideal, but a cross is a cross and if I am working for egg shell color then that becomes the priority of the cross and I ignore the rest the factors for the moment. Ideally if your friend would allow for a pen of the best blue egg layers crossed to your buff cock that would be the way to go . . . you have evidence then! I am always suspect of cock birds and egg shell color claims, that being said if the cock is from a flock with all nice egg shell color than I would use him based on the evidence presented by his sisters. It is probably 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, I just prefer using the buff cock over the assorted hens . . . if I could swing it I would actually do both! Working on egg shell color is an expensive and time consuming proposition because you need to keep a lot of pullets and get them laying before you are able to cull for egg shell color.

Michael

[Jean]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.  I am going to have to do alot of record keeping next year and already bought a toe punch and have colored and numbered leg bands.

I have enough room at the moment to keep several pullets as I also sell my eggs to support my babies.  I am getting $2.00 a dozen out of my eggs right now and that is for the smaller pullet eggs.  Once it warms up and everyone starts laying, I will be able to financially break even on food.  YEAH!

Hope everyone has a prosperous spring.

Jean