Author Topic: Breeding black to splash  (Read 24381 times)

John Jordan

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Breeding black to splash
« on: May 06, 2015, 09:01:52 AM »
I have been told that if you breed a black cock to a splash hen, you will get 100% blue chicks. Can anyone confirm this? and would it also be true that a splash cock to a black hen would also give you 100% blue? If both are true would it be dark blue or light blue? My objective is to determine if I want to keep any splash hens or cocks to breed with.

Susan Mouw

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2015, 09:15:06 AM »
I am just getting started with the BBS, but I've had wheaten/blue wheatens for several years and the color genetics for wheaten/blue wheaten/splash wheaten are the same as for BBS. Yes, it is true that if you breed splash (cock or hen) to black (cock or hen), you will get all blues.  So, if BB = black, Bb = blue, and bb = splash, this is what their breeding would look like.

BB(black) x BB(black) = 100% BB (black)

BB(black) x Bb(blue) = 50% BB (black) and 50% Bb (blue)

Bb(blue) x Bb(blue) = 25% BB(black), 50% Bb(blue), and 25% bb(splash)

BB(black) x bb(splash) = 100% Bb(blue)

Bb(blue) x bb(splash) = 50% Bb(blue) and 50% bb(splash)
Susan Mouw
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Don

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 10:17:25 AM »
John,  This is a great question that comes up frequently, and as Susan posted, the numbers work best with this mating if you want only blue offspring.  I am not sure if you can predict the shade of blue with this mating.  But there are some that say you have to go back to Black to keep good dark blues and use good solid blues to keep your splash from diluting over time.  In this vein, many have bred Blue to Black thru the years, sometimes you have to use what you have.  But if your goal is to raise one color Blue or Black, then there are some advantages in using specific families. 

First if your goal is to breed blues, some would say breed only best blues to blues.  But IMO, you can  use (blacks, blues and splashes) if these birds are bred out of good blue lines.  One advantage is you can be more assured that the blacks will be carrying the Blue edging (lacing) that you want on the blues.  The Splash from these families should have lacing too.  Hopefully you can see some of this on the blue feathers in the splash color.   Also the blue is better to be based on a silver "S" gene.  Not the silver variety, but carries silver rather than gold.       The Best Black birds will carry gold instead of the silver genes.  Some of the Blue Black folks hopefully will chime in here as I know several keep lines of each color.

Read thru the article at the top of this category "Laced Blue AMs" for some of the discussions about blues in general.   It discusses building a line with out-crosses which is a long process, but has some really good info about blues and the genetics too.   BTW. Christy is off shore and I am not sure if her AM families might make it back to the mainland.  But there are a few mainland folks that have already made this cross in case you are interested in Blues in this effort.  I think that your neighbor Stan has talked about getting some of these.  You might bug him for some Buffs when you are ready too. 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 09:33:34 PM by Don »
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Max

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2015, 11:18:53 AM »
The color blue is highly variable in expression. I can tell you from experience that when breeding black to splash the shade of blue will be all over the scale. There will be some that are terribly patterned but there will also be some that are extremely beautiful. Some of my best blues have come from a black/splash breeding. You just have to dig through the trash to find the treasure...  ;)
Max Strawn

DeWayne Edgin

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 08:49:01 PM »
Max do you think that when a blue chick hatches, the darker the down is usually means that the chick will have better lacing? It seems to work like this on my blue chicks.

greeneggsandham

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 09:24:49 PM »
Max do you think that when a blue chick hatches, the darker the down is usually means that the chick will have better lacing? It seems to work like this on my blue chicks.

That seems to be the case in my experience.  Look for a dark area on the head also.  Lighter blue chicks have been disappointing in the lacing/edging.  They would sure be striking if they did have it though.
Sharon
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DeWayne Edgin

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2015, 10:13:33 PM »
Thanks Sharron. I was wondering if it was just my line or if others noticed this also.

Stan Alder

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2015, 11:06:01 PM »
The genetics to get good lacing include Pg, Co, and maybe a melanizer....there is a lot more involved than just breeding for the dilute gene that gives the blue feather...that is one reason to breed only blue to blue..another is to keep from introducing the gold base gene that the better blacks are said to be based on...not sure that is true..but it has been accepted by a lot of breeders..nothing prettier in my mind than a good blue.

Max

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2015, 07:26:41 AM »
I have found that with the chick down the darker the blue the better. Also I look for more yellow down on the chest and belly instead of the white. They seem to be the most uniform in color when they grow out. The edging seems to be more defined as well. They don't really have true lacing...yet. To be continued.... :)
Max Strawn

Mindy and Tom Best

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2015, 10:23:08 AM »
Max, I have my first blues with yellow belly down ;D! So glad you mentioned it!

greeneggsandham

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 12:29:39 PM »
I have found that with the chick down the darker the blue the better. Also I look for more yellow down on the chest and belly instead of the white. They seem to be the most uniform in color when they grow out. The edging seems to be more defined as well. They don't really have true lacing...yet. To be continued.... :)

Do you know what the yellow and white signify? 
Sharon
Hubby rues the day he brought the chicks home...

Max

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2015, 12:37:49 PM »
No, not really. Just a theory. They seem to be more uniform and evenly colored with the yellow down.
Max Strawn

DeWayne Edgin

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 08:59:03 PM »
Thanks Max! This can help in culling chicks at a young age and save money on feed.

Don

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2015, 09:24:39 PM »
Max that is a smart way to learn and put it into practice.  I really like the idea of being able to cull at hatch.  I hedge my bets and end up feeding a lot of young ones.  Different families have their own expressions.  Which lines are your blues from?  I will mark some of my family of birds to see if I can find a similar pattern. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:20:41 PM by Don »
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Max

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Re: Breeding black to splash
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 10:00:15 PM »
I'm sure there is some genetic explanation that is still out of my reach. Different lines may produce better birds from chicks with the white chick down. I would keep all the darkest blue chicks regardless. I got my start from Paul by the way... Some of my Blue Andalusian chicks are so dark it's hard to tell them apart from the blacks until they are about a week old. And they have the white chick down on their chest and bellies.

I think it is a matter of learning what your own lines produce. Keep good records and take pictures along the way. In a few years you will have a pretty good idea how they will grow out when they hatch.  ;)
Max Strawn