silver bantams

[John]

Here is a photo of two silver bantam chicks.  The one on the right looks yellow/buff compared to the other.  They are hatching both ways and I wonder if any one knows if the the one without buff fluff will mature into a better colored silver than the other.  I am guessing so.  Is the buff chick down indicating gold?
The following is from the marsa_sellers site:

e+, Wild-type The dark eye stripe is characteristic of wild-type. The wild-type is often referred to as the \'chipmunk\' look. The buff color of the face and back stripes are affected by sex-linked silver and gold. You can easily tell Silver Duckwing chicks from Light Brown Leghorns, but you tend to have trouble in crosses, involving Ss heterozygotes, so there are probably modifiers that affect the gold color of the pure line chicks.

How do you read it?

[Mike Gilbert]

John,
How about toe-punching or otherwise marking the two colors of chick down, grow them out, and then reporting back as to the results?    This would be valuable information for anyone breeding the silver color pattern - if in fact there is a difference in the adult plumage coloring.    My gut feeling - very little difference if any, but hey, I was wrong one time before - I think.

Mike

[Guest]

our silvers are large fowl, but I imagine the same coloring is evident in both.
The yellow tinted one will probably not have as nice a color, the other one..looks lighter..a picture from the back is better to try to tell.
the light stripes that are a faint tan to almost white, with no hint of yellow tend to turn into very nice colord chicks. We get some with yellowish tint, and others with a mahageny tint to their stripe, theese seem to develop into not as nice colord fowl..and the ones with the mahagony color seem to all be males...
But that is just our limited experiance..with a low number of birds to compare, so the observztions may not be all that accurate in the \"big Picture\"
 

[grisaboy]

My silver chicks hatch out in different colors as well.  I had some very dark chipmunk color chicks this year.  I was sure they were going to grow into light brown color birds.  They all grew into the proper silver color.  Except the males were getting a lot of red in the wings.  The lighter color chicks are younger, but they seem to growing into the proper colors now.  Haven\'t seen any red, but their legs are not getting the proper slate color either.  The lighter color females are getting nice stippled feathers on their backs, with less shafting.
I my case the difference in chick color comes from the different males that I am using in the breeding pen.  I was using two males and swapping them out every two weeks.  I have pulled the male that throws the darker chicks out of the rotation because I don\'t like the color of the males that he is producing.  The male that I am keeping, has nice color but also has white legs, and a lot of his chicks also have white legs.  I am hoping to get a least one male with nice color and slate legs.  If not, I will try to get the leg color in the next generation.
Curtis

[John]

It sounds like you are having some of the same problems that I am.
My male has white shanks, but close to perfect feather color and pattern.  He does have a slight hint of red on one or more feathers.  I used him over 8 females.  Six had slate legs and two had clear/white legs.
The eggs were close to 100% fertile and I had close to a 100% hatch rate with them.
Now I notice that some chicks are developing willow and yellowish legs.  I don\'t think I\'ve had that problem show up in several years.
It is still too early to tell if the pullets will have less shafting and better stippling than their mamas.  I\'m still hopeful that this generation will be an improvement, but I won\'t know for sure for a few months.  

[Guest]

I have never had one with white / clear leggs, but our origional birds had willow leggs, because of having started with hatchery stock.
we are getting a lot od slate leggs now, and a few grissled looking ones, and still some willow ones. I don\'t think we will ever sucessfully breed out all of the willow, as sometimes it even skips a generation or two, then pops back up.

were did your white leggs come from??


I almost thought your chicks looked like wheatens from the photo, but didn\'t comment because i thought it , might just be my monitor.  I can only just barely see the color on their heads.
They do look awful pale in the leg department too..even though our silvers start out with almost clear leggs, there is a hint of color in them.  Also, the yellow/white underside looks way larger than we usually see on our large fowl chicks.

It is very interesting looking at the differances...and even more in trying to come up with solutions for the flaws.

[grisaboy]

The white legs on mine came from Silver Duckwing Old English.  I also have a few willow legs.  The willow came from a silver duckwing araucana hen that i used a couple of years ago.  Once I get the top color right,  then I will concentrate more on cleaning up the legs.
You can get rid of the yellow/willow legs by doing test matings with a yellow leg breed like leghorn.  The yellow is recessive.  That is why it doesn\'t show up for a couple generations.  So if you cross a yellow leg bird with a non yellow leg bird, the offspring should all be non yellow legs.  Any matings producing yellow/willow leg chicks would Identify your breeders that carry the recessive yellow legs.

Curtis

[John]

The white legs on mine came from Silver Duckwing Old English.

The same here.
I did buy a bantam silver pullet at the ABC National in Connersville several years ago that had willow legs, but she had almost no shafting and great stippling.  I guess she has come back to haunt me.  
My LF silvers have 100% slate legs, although I did introduce a pullet several years back that was part leghorn and could have brought in willow legs.

[John]

As my bantam silvers matured the willow and or yellow that I thought I saw in their legs seems to have disappeared.  Here is the best cockerel...I think he looks great...except he has clear/white legs.  He has a great pea comb and good eye color.  There is a little white in his breast also.  He isn\'t perfect, but I\'m very happy with him.  Last year my best silver cockerel up and died on me, I hope that doesn\'t happen this time.  What is that saying...only the good die yourg?

[Mike Gilbert]

John, he\'s a nice looking bird.   If he is out of a slate legged mother I wouldn\'t hesitate to use him.   If he is out of a white legged mother (and father), you may not get any slate legs out of him at all, even if mated to slate shanked females.

Mike

[John]

I\'m not sure what his momma had, but the daddy\'s legs look just like Junior\'s.  He has a brother with slate legs, but his breast is about 60% black and 40% white.  Next year I will use him over the best pullets and the cockerel, in the photo,  and others will be rotated over another pen of pullets.  I am only keeping pullets with slate legs for next year.  We\'ve making progress.

[Guest]

For me and maybe other newbies, could someone define/describe stippling and shafting?

Thanks,

Melanie
www.macgregorhollow.com

[John]

stippling and shafting

They are both defined in the APA Standard, under GLOSSARY OF TECHNICAL TERMS, on page 11.
Stippling (not the same as striping which is different than stripping) is the contrasting colors of tiny dots or speckles on a feather.
Shafting is when the shaft of the feather is a different color than the surface color of the feather.
With silver females we want stippling, but not shafting.

[grisaboy]

Here are my selection criteria for Silver Bantams this year.
Males --  Must have no red or yellow in the top color.
              Absolutely no yellow legs.
          -- I am hoping that one of these chicks I have
             a good white top color with a clear white wing bar
             and a solid black breast, dark legs, with a nice
             beard and pea comb.  This is what I am selecting for.

Females -- These are a little easier so my selection criteria is
                 tougher.
             -- Must have dark legs, pea comb, beard.
             -- I am selecting for grey stippled back, rich salmon
                 breast, and blue eggs.
             -- I am selecting against red \'bricking\' in the back,
                shafting, and brown or green eggs.

I realize that where I am at with this program that I won\'t get everything I want yet.  So right now I am concentrating on the \'Must Have\' criteria.  Anything that doesn\'t meet these is gone.  From the remaining birds I am keeping those that are closest to what I am selecting for, and farthest from what I am selecting against.

The first group of birds that I hatched this year were pretty disappointing.  I have hatched a few more now and am waiting for them to get big enough so I can see what I have.

Curtis

[John]

I didn\'t think it would happen, but I have a couple too many silver bantam cockerels.  The one that I posted photos of in this thread is for sale.  His biggest faults are the clear legs and the comb that I thought was great...isn\'t, but he is silver and would be a good breeder unless you have better.  I also have a much younger cockerel that I\'ll include in the shipping box.  
Email me if interested.

I sold 71 more rejects yesterday morning (51 Ameraucanas and 20 Vorwerks) and moved the last 100+ chicks from some wire bottom brooders to a coop with heat lamps.  I look forward to hatching each year, but also can\'t wait to grow the chicks and see what I have.  I\'ll have at least one more big culling in a month or so.  I\'ll only keep the ones I want for next year.  If I end up with any extras that may be too nice to sell as culls/rejects will be offered for sale at the National meet.